originally posted by Auna
I doubt dragons would be inclined to help and may be too bludgeon-y a force to deal with it properly.
I've been pretty sure for a while that Arithon's bardic gift is the only hope for Lysaer.
The biggest issue though is that Lysaer would have to want to be helped and he is tangled with too many fears and self-delusions to make that happen just yet.
originally posted by Annette
I doubt a dragon could dream the curse away even if one wanted to, the curse is not a physical thing, it is entangled with Lysaer's spirit, so any dreaming is likely to still destroy Lysaer. And a dragon is more likely to kill Lysaer while he is cursed, he would be seen as a threat to the Paravians.
Look at what Lysaer did when he entered one of Ath's hostels, he would destroy the kings glade and take a few kingdoms with him if he ever got near that much power. No one would ever be foolish enough to show him the way. Even Arithon had to be careful, and he had his training and bardic skills.
Yes, Arithon could help Lysaer, but he cannot get close enough to Lysaer without getting killed, and as far as we know, he cannot yet exist in a spirit form without a body. But I suspect that might be Arithon's plan.
Loosen the grip the curse has on Lysaer, with both Daliana's love, and the injustice of Arithon's suffering and death, and Lysaer will not be refusing a chance to accept redemption. And that is the easiest way to free Lysaer, they will just have to save him before his own gifts of justice and light kills him.
Already Janny has been throwing hints Lysaer's guilt might make him a bit suicidal. Once freed of the curse, Lysaer will no longer be blind to the truth of what he has done. And he would have done far worse by then. Look at how Lysaer felt during the siege of Alestron while under the influence of Alithiel's song. What will he be like when freed of the curse, and with a lot worse to feel guilty about?
So someone else being responsible for Arithon's death would not save Lysaer even though it will free him of the curse. And Arithon will use his own death as a weapon. Lysaer's thoughts on the matter in Amroth are likely to prove true, only this time Lysaer will be the king, and Arithon will not be aiming for the easier, quicker death.
And then there is Mak's curse to think of, does that still apply centuries later? I would think it would.
Lysaer is likely to be wishing with all his heart that he could undo past wrongs and that Fates wheel would turn backwards. And Lysaer like Kevor and Arithon would have some talent for grand conjury. We will have to wait and see what happens.
originally posted by Auna
To me, the incident at Alestron showed that Arithon could get close to Lysaer by using his music to force the curse to remain quiet. It's just the other people who always interfere that are forcing continued separation.
Man that guilt like you said is going to be painful to witness.
originally posted by Adrian Algire
Hmmm. That is true about the music. Without others getting in the way, he could meld music and the flux. He would be most potent in Rathain.
But guilt tempered with Love? Daliana in a way is the Caithdein to Lysaer. I know he is not sanctioned anymore but the relationship is there.
We already know Arithon will not blame or hate his brother. His compassion has and will prevent that. The guilt solely resides with Lysaer. But how much of that guilt is actually from the mist wraith? Anything to gain control over Lysaer. Any weakness will be pushed to breaking point.
I really believe when Lysaer is freed he will feel guilty. But more importantly, he will know how justice can be corrupted. From that experience he would make a better king. Just believe he will strive to do right from that point forward to make up for the past. But, the clans in Tysan would never accept him. Not sure how that would work even if he earned the sanction again. But a child from him and Daliana is a different story.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
In the sneak peaks we have seen, we know from Janny that the first chapter involves Daliana and Davien. I assume that it also involves Lysaer and Dakar. They were all traveling together at the end of I.T. Minus Davien of course. Janny also said that she couldn't reveal too much about the first chapter without giving away too much. Maybe Davien opens up Daliana's inherited gifts. It is in his nature.
originally posted by Annette
I thought Arithon had already melded music and the flux several times. It is melding his spirit with Alithiel's song he has not tried yet.
originally posted by Julie
Adrian:
Lysaer would have to be absolved by the Paravians before the 7 would consider royal sanction. We already know they would look to his descendents and the clans would accept that. Amongst their worries about Lysaer is his guilt and remorse would cause him to harm himself. At the end of Initiate's Trial I understood Dakar's plan to help Daliana pull Lysaer from insanity did not just refer to the geas.
Janny: Its quiet here- how about that sneak peak?
originally posted by Annette
Lysaer was outcast from the compact, which is a permanent thing, he will never be sanctioned for kingship by the Fellowship. Which is why they would look to one of his descendents, or a relative from Dascen Elur.
But then maybe Athera will no longer have the Fellowship chosen royal lines after the next book.
Maybe something else will replace the compact, freeing the Fellowship to go do something else. Lysaer's future is with the townspeople, who will eventually make him king.
Something more fun would be trying to guess how Elaira is going to be getting that info she needs from Althain Tower.
Sethvir cannot give it to her, she cannot just break in and get it. Is Elaira really going to breeze in for tea?
Sethvir always seems to leave a window open, and he always has a cup of tea near by. Maybe Elaira could some how use her talent to work through a cup of tea?
originally posted by Auna
Why can't Elaira just ask?
originally posted by Annette
Because of Asandir's oath of non interference where Arithon is concerned. I could be wrong, but I believe what Elaira is after would come under that.
Elaira was told where the information was to be found, no mentioned was made of asking Sethvir for it. So if indeed Elaira is going to be stonewalled, how is she going to learn what she needs to know?
originally posted by Julie
Elaira told the Beidar elder that she would go and confer with Sethvir. I believe she would work around Asandir's oath as she is acting as a go between the Koriani and Beidar.
If the Fellowship are so hobbled by their oath, even their thoughts would be enough to break it!!
originally posted by Auna
Elaira seeks to find out info about the stolen Biedar knowledge. This has nothing directly to do with Arithon, so I'm guessing Sethvir will be able to help. He can point to the pile and say have at it.
Now maybe there is something there that will help Arithon, but I think Sethvir will be able to work around the limitation with the whole 'Biedar Emissary asked me, I pointed to historical records' defense.
I think this will be more about Elaira growing in ability and knowledge. The Prime should be very worried.
originally posted by Clansman
Selidie/Morriel has always had a blind spot when it comes to the Fellowship. She hates them so much that she misses subtle details, which allow the Fellowship and/or their friends to wriggle through a small crack that the Prime has overlooked.
It usually has to do with the difference between the Koriani's world view and their use of coercive power, versus the F7'w world view and their use of permissive power. While coercion has immediate results, it's long term repercussions always result in a net negative. Permissive power in WoLaS is in the long run much more powerful than coercion, which is one of Janny's major themes in this story.
originally posted by Dorothy
There's nothing like a piece of passive resistance.Much more effective than ranting and raving.You can get on quietly and achieve your objectives before anyone realises what's going on.Can you tell I have children? ; )
originally posted by Clansman
Yes. Yes I can.
Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.
originally posted by Annette
Handfast to Rathain, holder of Arithon's heart, and his future, and now the Biedar's emissary to her beloved, who seeks knowledge about her secretive orders dark past and how they acquired their power. How could what Elaira is after not be considered crucial to Arithon's future? Elaira wants to protect him, and protect what she is keeping safe, any further knowledge or training she acquires will be used to thwart Selidie's plans for Arithon.
Sethvir will not stop her getting the info herself, he might be conveniently reading it at the time, but I doubt he will speak to her about it, or open the front door and invite Elaira in. If Elaira can speak to him, she can ask for the info and Sethvir would have to allow her to have it, so Sethvir will not be inviting Elaira in for tea, or speaking with her when she arrives at Althian tower to ask. I believe how to learn the info with no help from the Fellowship will be Elaira's problem to solve. It is in the tower, how else can she get in to search for it?
The Bedier Eldest said nothing about Elaira speaking to Sethvir, Elaira said that.
And I suspect Elaira might later be taking a trip to Hanshire as part of her quest for knowledge about her order and their secrets.
originally posted by Neil
"some of the historical detail you seek will be found with the warden of althain", "search there, first".
- p380 Initiate's trial
Some? Curious 
"your steps will be protected" - so Koriani/necromancers won't be able to corner her and elaira is allowed to use the knife once. Is the skyron crystal something she could clear?
I think Elaira can *ask* F7 if she bumps into them. I think Sethvir can tell her what he wants and this is not direct help to Arithon. Has Elaira met Sethvir face to face yet? Don't think so? She has not been to Althain yet?
Biedar said that she "would stand"… and if she accepts the role the whole necromancy issue could be resolved. But Elaira has not dared to accept/promise? But will consult with Sethvir first?
Does this mean Elaire does *not* trust Biedar more than fellowship? Arithon has also refused Biedar "bizarre obligations"…so free will keeps Arithon/Elaira not entirely aligned to F7 or Biedar objectives which might be intentional?
I suppose the Biedar is not interested in the remnants of humanity on Athera except according to their agenda. Fellowship at least are trying to keep humanity alive on Athera for now. Would obliteration of humanity serve Biedar objective albeit an unpleasant outcome overall?
Would a smear campaign against Koriani limit their recruitment and mean they fade away or do we need the prime to go out "with a bang". I can guess which is more dramatic and a more fun read 
Although Selidie keeps having alternative back up plans…they are going to go for Elaira directly now rather than Arithon?
originally posted by Annette
The knife only allows protection, it would still work the same as it did for Lysaer. It cannot be used to clear the Skyron focus stone, and the Skyron, like Elaira's personal crystal, might not want to be cleared.
originally posted by Julie
The knife can be weilded once by Elaira to break the bonds of necromancy- like with Lysaer. Presumably Arithon will use it to free Selidie from Moriell- this will break the Koriani Prime succession (the vision that she had way back in the story). The Waystone would be inoperable and all of the stolen knowledge contained within it lost. The Skyron and Waystone were subjugated long ago. who knows what their original essences would want.
originally posted by Annette
Any of Ath's adepts, or Arithon would know what the stone in question wanted. Neither of which would clear a stone against its will, or clear a stone if it would harm others. All the surviving Koriani seniors except Selidie would have their personal crystals aligned to the Skyron as part of their longevity bindings, what would happen to them if the Skyron was cleared? Selidie would have no longevity bindings, for the same reason her hands could not be healed, clearing the Waystone would not harm Selidie if she manages to survive all this.
The fresh batch of talent the Koriani induct is not likely to be high level enough to be offered longevity before Selidie finally gets her chance to deal with Arithon, in person, while he is in full possession of his wits. Arithon does usually give his adversary the first shot, which I suspect is a way to work out how Arithon will use that knife.
I do not think Arithon would use the knife directly on Selidie, or anyone else for that matter. Selidie is in no position to use the knife herself, since she is not in charge of her own body, and Morriel is not likely to let that knife any where near her. How did Sulfin Evend first use the knife? That would be the clue.
originally posted by Neil
had an idea about drakes…
They live a long time…but sleep a long time…so they waking / sleeping time is a long cycle.
Is this how you steal an egg? Risk a visit to sleeping drake? OK so awake they are not to mess with but asleep are vulnerable?
Drakespawn are on a different rhythm…so whilst the drakes sleep - and if drakes are tired…they just won't wake until something terrrible occurs and it is too late…
humans are on different rhythm again? but somehow not changing over 5000 years…or are they slowly gaining the ability to live on Athera in the higher frequencies if they live close by? Does not look like it if they stay in the towns…
Still not sure why F7 would be considered "masters of destruction" compared to a drake…but perhaps the F7 alone need least sleep !!!
grimwards/drake/drakespawn damage is difficult or pracically impossible to repair back to normality? But finally a drake has learnt or found the inclination?