I've been wondering...

originally posted by Katie

I suppose these questions are mainly for Janny because I don't recall there being any mention of them in the books, but I could very well be wrong. Feel free to jump in and state any opinions/knowlege about them, anybody.

I've been wondering. Does anybody on Dascen Elur know about Paravia? I'd assume the mages at Rauven do, but what about the other people? And if so, what is the extent of their knowledge of it?

Also, did Arithon ever know his mother, even as a small child. I know the Mak says something about her dying too young, but it's possible Arithon might've known her, if only for a short period of time.

Katie - you asked.

Most of the recorded knowledge (archived and reliable) about Paravia on Dascen Elur is at Rauven. Dari's transcribed histories are the source material. The knowledge is not common, specifically due to Dari's aware viewpoint…she was not only highly trained, but a talent with a rogue gift. For this reason, access to Rauven's inner libraries is not "free" to anyone.

The other areas only hold fragments - largely lapsed into legend. There is a reason for this - it has to do with the course of that world's settlement, and the fact that written knowledge of Paravia really wasn't relevant to the purpose of the relatively small number (think outpost) of people living there at the time of the directional sealing of the Gate.

Arithon knew his mother, but only as a very small child. Ref. to that is made in Peril's Gate.

originally posted by Tamas

Katie - What do you mean by Paravia? I thought the world was called Athera. Is this the same thing or am I missing something?

Tamas - to clarify: Paravia is the inhabited continent on Athera.

originally posted by Katie

Thanks a lot, Janny :smiley:

originally posted by Rena McClain

I am just getting close to finishing this book. I also just found this website so there is SO much more for me to read/learn. I have enjoyed the book but found the reading difficult in the way I felt when I read Tolkien a few years ago. There is much to take in, including the difficulty of learning the characters, the setting and the world(s). I find I cannot read this book straight through as I try to assess all the changes that characters effect themselves as well as all the influences that try to hold force over the half-brothers. This definitely is a book to take your time with to get the full implications with the character growth and changes.

originally posted by Kimberly Israel

Something sort of related I'm curious about, and am asking if answers won't be spoilers:

What was Dascen Elur like before the royal lines were sent there? It apparently has a population other than the royal bloodlines, given that there are kingdoms and all. Did these people exist before? Did Dascen Elur exist before or was it somehow created when the royals were sent there? And if people did live there before, how did the royals wind up being kings on that world as well?

Kimberly -

I was trolling through this topic, looking for some material to possibly work over to add (as a potential appendix - TK US edition has six blank pages at the end, and they've offered to let me fill them as they go to press) - Just realized this was here - if you want ME to answer your query on Dascen Elur, you have to ask Directly.

I make this distinction so that fans can freely have their OWN discussions and speculations without intervention by me - which tends to bring free thought to a thumping halt.

If anyone wants me to answer you have to directly ASK ME. Then I will respond if there are no spoilers.

originally posted by max

Well I will ask directly!! What was Dascen Elur like before the royal lines refugeed there.? And all the questions above too. [LOL] Would love to hear everything you have to say about DE, Janny. And is there a connection between the boat called Dascen in the Stormwarden trilogy? [smiling at ya]

Max - You Asked - - and I am chuckling because this particular aspect of the historical fabric is gonna blow a few pet theories…about Fellowship intents, for one thing. :smiley:

The "splinter worlds" were gate linked to Athera at the time that the compact was designed and accepted, as PART OF mankind's grant of sanctuary.

The fine points are both simple and complex.

Athera is a high resonance planet, has to be, to support Paravian survival, and even, to enable the lives of the dragons who first evolved there. Not every human refugee WANTED the changes required to live there…not every human was suited to life as it would need to be lived. Not every human, in short, desired to align with the lifestyle required by the compact, which was a set guideline to protect Athera from experiencing a downward spiral in frequency.

Each gate has two worlds - a "first" world, which acts as a buffer, and a second, which served as a destination. Paravians might visit the buffer for short periods. (Recall that they live without entropy) The terms on the buffer worlds were a little looser.

The destination worlds allowed complete free choice existance. No law or restriction in frequency was in place.

When humans settled Athera, not Everyone came. Those that DID accepted the terms of the compact. The loss of unrestricted land use DID have benefits: humans on Athera seldom fall sick from debilitiating disease (did you not notice??? Talera s'Ahelas died of fever on Dascen Elur, but had she lived on Athera, she would likely not have perished of disease) The very few instances of "sick" you have seen were confined to Etarra and Jaelot (or other areas where lane flows were disturbed. (The Mayor's gout, a jailer's cold, Halliron's brief cold all occurred in Jaelot's proximity, and the flow to that focus circle is flat messed up)

Each destination world had to be CAREFULLY chosen. It had to accept human habitation by free will. Dascen Elur in particular had very little inhabitable land mass - it was largely open ocean. (Reasons for this, and also reasons why the buffer world was perdominantly a mineral desert)

Each of the gate worlds had a purpose, as "escape valve" for specific things – South Gate was where technology was permitted to develop.

The immediate question: why should the Koriathain NOT have gone to a gate world – is easily answered – because their "magic" worked FAR MORE STRONGLY on Athera. They stayed for the power. That simple. Stayed for the power, and but always were resentful they could not make full use, as they pleased.

So - now you know the gate worlds permitted, even if in mosaic fashion, free expression of human free will - in such a way that Athera could remain undamaged - then you may be able to peer into the cracks of this tale and extrapolate some of the extanuating politics…:smiley:

The gates, and the splinter worlds, were Fellowship workings - with a degree of partnership from the Paravians, since their world was the one subject to the effect by the prospect of human settlement.

Dascen Elur was a far flung set of islands, inhabited by a varied set of cultures who had to work together to trade to maintain their quality of life. It had a few spots where resonance was magic-friendly - and Dari s'Ahelas obviously would choose to settle there. Her issue remained.

Amroth - where s'Ilessid stayed, was the largest population center - and a prince whose gift was justice would naturally gravitate to that place.

The more sensitive s'Ffalenn heir chose the peacefully isolate, out of the way beauty of the original Karthan.

I have always warned that the complexity of Athera's fabric is wider and larger than this story reflects - or even, than all the points in this story can illuminate. Take care not to oversimplify as you play with the concepts.

The gates and splinter worlds, their makeup and function, were anything but simple in designed intent. To view the Law of the Major Balance on Athera, and man's FREE place in the pattern, the gates and splinter worlds must be taken into account.

originally posted by Blue

Man, oh man, would I LOVE to be a bug crawling over your extensive notes for a year or so Janny!

originally posted by Gary

I started thinking about what Janny said above, this morning - and felt like relating it to the whole issue of the energies involved in maintaining a "spell" (for the want of a better term).

Firstly, I see that certain areas of Dascen Elur were magic-friendly. I speculate that this might mean that if Alithiel had been anywhere else, Sethvir might not have gotten an early glimpse that Dakar's 500-year prophecy was about to be fulfilled? Based on an idea that the gemstone might need to be energised before being able to connect with Sethvir's Earth Link…

Another thought… everything from Athera is alive… can such a living entity continue to hold consciousness on a lower-resonance world like Dascen Elur? Would a rock or gemstone taken from Athera move into a semi-hibernatory state? Conserve what energy it has, like a bear in winter…

How did the Waystone (and other major focus jewels) have such importance to the Koriani before their coming to Athera - did the Koriani come from a relatively high-resonance world, that the jewels actually had power over holding a person's oath, etc.? Is the world through South Gate actually remarkably inferior to what the Koriani were used to?

And lastly, all spells seem to have a source for their power - whether it's taking power from beyond the veil (like Ath's adepts), or help from the elements, plants, animals, minerals (like the Fellowship), or Arithon and Lysaer's rather special form of power (I forget where Lysaer's comes from, but IIRC Arithon's shadows come from the energy of unborn possibility). Whichever way it is, the energy has to be contributed from somewhere. What I'm wondering is where the energy for the guiding talents of the ruling lines comes from. I can think of two main possibilities offhand. Firstly, that the energy to maintain it comes from the line itself (all the descendents contribute). Secondly, that the energy comes from the connection of the line with the land, and the lands of Paravia supply the power to continue the spell.

Either way, or even if I'm quite wrong, I'd suggest that this might not survive a long exposure in a "low-energy" world. I wonder if there was a particular reason for choosing West Gate over South Gate, like that the energy was high enough to allow the founding virtues of the lines to continue intact… (ahem, if South Gate hadn't been cut off, the exile was after the Mistwraith invasion, I remind myself…) But it does point to an example purpose for that Gate.

Just thinking out loud - does anybody have any thoughts on this? I could be completely off-base, but it's always fun to speculate :smiley:

originally posted by Hannah

Gary, good thoughts. I don't have anything to contribute. Just nodding along like "Hmm, yeah… now I wonder too."

Janny, I didn't say this before and I often don't say it enough when you go to the trouble to post a lengthy and interesting explanation post like above. I don't know if others are like me, where, after reading a post like the above, just sit there and let the inferences wash over you, and then can't think of a single intelligent point to add, so just wander away in a daze. Anyhow, my point was to thank you for taking the time and effort to answer our direct inquiries and for the sensitivity to not cut in and spoil our out-loud musings and wild speculations. :wink: It always enlightening to read of the back-story, and more-in-depth-story of Athera.

Hannah - you're welcome. It's a joy to hear this sort of indepth explanation provokes thought…:smiley:

originally posted by Hannah

It provokes cackles of delight too, but I didn't think you'd especially want to hear of those.

originally posted by Rurack

yeah they can drive me nuts some times :smiley: for every question she answers three pop up. I read that and something came into my mind first set of questions would be. South gate those people that wanted technology were sent through. West gate the fugitive clans were sent to and people were there but they did not want technology. So why were the original people sent through what was "their beef?"
And What is on the otherside of the North and East gates?
Also I can't remember were the princes sent through before or after dakar's west gate prophecy? If before why the West gate?
If after, I'm an idiot and just can't remember.

originally posted by Hellcat

Me to!

Janny's answes shoot me of onto other ideas and thoughts but not often in a way that I can pull something coherent togther and post it.

I'm now saving all janny's long posts so I can retrive them for later comtemplation.


originally posted by Neil

Why would F7's "hope for south" reside in the last prince raised in hiding I wonder? (assume this is havish's future king?) Havish is the west?

originally posted by Trys

But south of Tysan and definitely south of Althain Tower. :smiley:

originally posted by Annette

Well west and north were going to be at war, and Havish was south to both Tysan and Rathain. Lysaer was disbarred and Arithon just plain unwilling to accept kingship, so they only had one Prince they could crown, Havish's. Havish would have some stability and be under crown rule, and was between Lysaer and the south. So the southern kingdoms stayed out of things a bit longer.

Havish's royal line was the only royal line to stay on Athera, so yes it was Havish's Prince. You will find that out in Ships of Merior.