originally posted by Judy
In my thoughts, I keep coming back to the vow Morriel / Selidie took on the Waystone to never force Elaira to betray Arithon. She might be so rattled by seeing the knife in Arithon's possession … THAT knife in HIS hands … that she forgets her vow, and goes kaboom.
originally posted by Julie
Hi Clansman:
I realized my mistake just now on rereading, thought I deleted that bit. You are right he is very much the pacifist, although he blamed himself for the deaths of the Kralovir fringe members (Raitt for one).
Moriel/Selidie seems to be quite good at being hoisted on her own petard! She was deceitful to Elaira at that same interview, if she had fingers I would guess that she had them crossed behind her back when she made that vow!
originally posted by DarthJazy
So the wonderful F7 decide they need a vacation and just evict all of humanity from the planet end series muwhahaha
originally posted by Annette
The Fellowship would more likely go home for a vacation, fix up their home worlds, they left as cinders, build a holiday home and wait for humanity to follow them. They should get a fair bit of peace that way, take humanity a while to evolve that far.
originally posted by Annette
And Arithon called on no Fellowship intercession to deal with the Kralovir, all they did was clean up the bodies. Arithon had already dealt with the Kralovir, they were gone. Arithon did sort of warn them. "Then for my sake, rest my appeal with Ath’s grace." He meant it literally.
Arithon set himself up as bait, they inducted his essence into their web and when Arithon called down the prime vibration they were reaped from within, getting all of them, breaking all their dark ties and freeing their captive spirits. No Fellowship power was used, Arithon did not use any crown ties.
I am sort of wondering if Selidie Prime has made a similar mistake. How exactly has she defeated mortality? Selidie cannot have longevity, so how is it she is still young? Was she using something she stole from Arithon? Life force maybe? Look at how the necromancers gain their longevity by torturing the spirits they imprison, or how they drain the vitality from a living breathing being. Arithon's spirit was imprisoned, and under her power. If she needed anything else, she also had his witless body captive, he was defenseless.
But if that speculation is any where near true, I suspect Arithon knew that would happen, before he was taken captive. Has Selidie already taken the bait? And when Arithon escaped, did she lose the source of her addiction? Or can she maybe draw from her order without them noticing, or from Lirenda more likely. Would it be enough or will Selidie start to age maybe?
And then there is Arithon, why was it necessary for the Biedar to bend time to get him back? How is it Selidie would know they did that? Because it would have taken longer than Arithon's life span to redeem all those wraiths? Selidie Prime expected to win either way, and still have Arithon's spirit a captive after he died? And if for 248 years (or maybe less depending on when it started, or when the wraiths became a problem) Arithon was also somehow preserving Selidie, what does that mean for Arithon's longevity?
originally posted by Julie
The Koriani had longevity spells tied at least to their personal crystals. Remember (I think) in Ships of Merior, Elaira agrees to undergo the process. one of the Fellowship discorporates visits her and not only eases the physical pain but removes the longevity bonds from her crystal.
Then there was the Koriani healer who died that horrible death when her crystal was dropped in a bucket of sea water.
originally posted by Annette
When we first met Morriel, she used her personal crystal. When we first met Selidie, before she became Prime, she used hers. Since Selidie became Prime, Morriel's crystal was cleared, since she died, and Selidie has never been seen to use hers, it has never been mentioned. The personal crystal ties to the spirit, Morriel could never use Selidie's personal crystal.
Unless Selidie had longevity training before Morriel possessed her, her life could never be extended the usual way. Wrong spirit. Selidie was 20 when she became Prime, no mention was ever made of her having longevity training before that. She could pretend to have it after, but it would not work!
Perfect with youth, though she was in fact aged, her vitality engineered by dark spellcraft that had repeatedly cheated mortality,
-Initiate’s Trial
Overwhelming, his fury for the twisted practice that permitted the abomination he confronted on the dais to live. He capped his latent rage for the abhorrent abuses that kept Selidie’s creamy skin smooth;
-Initiate’s Trial
If Selidie had longevity bindings, she would still look as young, there would have been no need for her to use dark arts to cheat mortality. No need for abhorrent abuses to keep her youth. Morriel cheated mortality once, not repeatedly. So how has Morriel been keeping Selidie looking young? Look at how the necromancers work, look at how the Koriani Prime can draw life force from her initiate's, using that master sigil.
If the Great Waystone’s properties had lent her some surcease from the crippling pain which hounded her overtaxed body, it could not extend the span of her life by even as much as one day.
-Warhost of Vastmark
Where did Selidie Prime steal the power from to extend her youth, and who has she been abusing?
Whenever he tried to break through, other forces would answer, bleeding him until he lay helplessly prostrate.
-Initiate’s Trial
Are you alive enough to fight back?’
-Initiate’s Trial
"I was held as their captive, most likely for an unclean purpose."
-Initiate’s Trial
Look at the words Janny has used.
And then there is this.
"Never let go! Not until you reclaim the blood-born right to your whole being."
-Initiate’s Trial
Why is it Arithon could only come up with part of his Name? Ari___n, what happened to the tho? Is he missing something? Elaira is keeping part, imprinted in Rathain's signet ring.
Emptied himself, his given will yielded the part of his core self that was hers alone.
-Initiate’s Trial
Dakar probably stripped him of memory it seems.
For the personal imprint no longer existed, as sworn by the Mad Prophet long ago on the night sands at Athir. Arithon Teir’s’Ffalenn had been stripped of that memory, along with his greater identity.
-Initiate’s Trial
Arithon's greater identity? Some parts are kept safe by Elaira and Dakar, Selidie Prime never got everything, even though she got Arithon. No knowledge of spell craft, no knowledge of Arithon's heart, and then there is that greater identity thing, a mystery that, or was that the Creator himself? Herself? There is a bit more to this story than what is obvious.
Maliciously sure, the Prime offered Arithon the seductive temptation, to know himself as he had been before the enspelled term of her imprisonment had stripped away his greater faculties.
-Initiate’s Trial
Traithe lost his greater faculties to that Mistwraith, he also lost memory. Is Arithon missing something more than memory? And who really has it, did Selidie maybe lie? Dakar has certainly come a long way from what he used to be, is it just the training? Elaira can now it seems stand against that master sigil, hold her own against a Prime Matriarch and her talent can work through more than just water now.
originally posted by Annette
Something we have all probably thought about over the years, especially since Arithon popped the question to Elaira and she accepted. Do we think Arithon and Elaira are ever going to have a family all of their own? The patter of little feet once those two start to make their own light and music together on a regular basis, after all the conflict ends and things settle down.
As clear in his heart was the love in the choice that had claimed his blood oath at Athir: the imperative drive to uphold the mysteries sustaining Paravian survival. He had come too far to abandon that charge, which also demanded her place at his side, in the ecstasy of freed union.
-Stormed Fortress
Now we have seen the most fun way the two of them can uphold the mysteries, seems to result in conception, no matter what precautions are taken.
Children were also part of the wish of Arithon's heart.
Desh-thiere’s curse was a memory, all bloodshed behind him. He could abandon both crown and sword without guilt and reassume the pursuit of his music. Elaira’s voice called him. Her open arms promised him peace, and the delights of unimpaired freedom. Together, they would build a bright future. Immersed in the rapture of her tender love, Arithon beheld a shared life made full. Together, they could study the grand confluence of the mysteries and raise a family of gifted children.
-Peril’s Gate
If they do the grand confluence thing each year, and both live a very long life together, that could be a lot of children.
originally posted by Julie
Let them have some time together before the challenges of parenthood. Unless they have lots of nannies, a brood of children will detract from their creative endeavors!
originally posted by Annette
They will probably both have lots of other responsibilities, so not likely to get a lot of physical time together at first anyway. But I do not think abstinence is in their plans. And it seems upholding the mysteries needs them to have some fun together on a regular basis.
Elaira might have lots of nannies, very experienced at bringing up talented children. The Koriani will need less orphanages if they stop making orphans with their meddling ways. Elaira would waste no time sorting them out if she was in charge. A compassionate order of motherly healers?
And is not parenthood another way Arithon and Elaira can help Athera? All that born talent protected and trained up, allowed to be whatever they want to be. Adepts, Koriani, mages, bards, healers, maybe even a few priests? If Arithon ever gets the chance to start a family, he would make sure they were protected, and allowed to reach their full potential, in love, without having to struggle just to survive as he had to.
originally posted by Annette
A quote from Initiate's Trial.
No mortal survived, who crossed Athili’s rim.
Who read that and started wondering when Arithon would be paying Athili a visit? What would posses him to take such a risk? What might he gain? Arithon seems to make a habit of doing what no other mortal would do. But Janny threw in a hint in case we forgot.
No mortal was fashioned to endure countless days, spent immersed in the etheric surge of the flux tides. Arithon had little choice.
Arithon it seems is no ordinary mere mortal, but Janny keeps reminding us he is still mortal. How is he going to survive Destiny's Conflict? Arithon it seems has just about all the talent of the creator himself, just not the straight power, has a severe memory problem and not had a chance to develop to his full potential yet. Might there be something in Athili that would help?
originally posted by Maggie
Hi Janny!
Today I learned about a Spartan admiral named Lysander, and stopped in surprise at the similarity to the name Lysaer. Was it chance or inspiration in the similarity?
originally posted by Annette
One of the rare occasions the curse drove Arithon to madness and he actually said something about Lysaer. It was from Fugitive Prince as Arithon was attempting to escape Dakar at Riverton.
"My half brother isn’t going to lie down and die from the glorious rapture of music.’
When under control of the curse, Arithon would not see the truth, I bet that is just what Lysaer will do. Once freed of the curse Lysaer would not be turning down Athlieria. Think of how Arithon reacted after the battle of Strakewood when calling the lost spirits. Of Jilieth the little girl in Vastmark, and of the fallen soldier Arithon sang for in Kewar.
And then there is Alithiel, Arithon did want to give her to Lysaer in CotM. If the s'Ffalenn royal line ends, but Arithon returns, does that leave him free to pass Alithiel to Lysaer? His only blood relation on Athera? And what was Alithiel's purpose? Could be wrong about the sword, but I do not think I am wrong about what Lysaer's reaction will be when Arithon finally saves him.
originally posted by Neil
Rereading Peril's gate scenes…
Sethvir has a pact with fey spirits at Althain…but I have not idea what this might imply…
Selidie (if she captured Davien) felt she could "unlease old knowledge". What would she want to achieve without the compact? A higher standard of living with space-faring technology which presumably would upset magnetics/mysteries on the planet? What if they kept to the towns though? Or is there an inevitable necessary human migration to free wilds if population expands? Has human population on Athera increased in 5000 years …life expectancy?..is any "growth" limited by compact and Koriani see this as undesirable (and therefore not free to leave and continue to discover worlds…but then why not just carry on from Athera…they must have been desperate when they arrived on Athera to not just move on…or all the pilots were fed up of travel)?
Some of the information in the "way"stone is presumably a map of star systems so any leaver from Athera would know the way to plot their spaceship to the nearest available planet? 
originally posted by Neil
Rereading Peril's gate scenes…
Sethvir has a pact with fey spirits at Althain…but I have not idea what this might imply…
Selidie (if she captured Davien) felt she could "unlease old knowledge". What would she want to achieve without the compact? A higher standard of living with space-faring technology which presumably would upset magnetics/mysteries on the planet? What if they kept to the towns though? Or is there an inevitable necessary human migration to free wilds if population expands? Has human population on Athera increased in 5000 years …life expectancy?..is any "growth" limited by compact and Koriani see this as undesirable (and therefore not free to leave and continue to discover worlds…but then why not just carry on from Athera…they must have been desperate when they arrived on Athera to not just move on…or all the pilots were fed up of travel)?
Some of the information in the "way"stone is presumably a map of star systems so any leaver from Athera would know the way to plot their spaceship to the nearest available planet?
originally posted by DarthJazy
I just always assumed that the information in the "way" stone were old star maps to the closest "starbucks".
originally posted by Neil
Rereading Peril's gate scenes…
Sethvir has a pact with fey spirits at Althain…but I have not idea what this might imply…
Selidie (if she captured Davien) felt she could "unlease old knowledge". What would she want to achieve without the compact? A higher standard of living with space-faring technology which presumably would upset magnetics/mysteries on the planet? What if they kept to the towns though? Or is there an inevitable necessary human migration to free wilds if population expands? Has human population on Athera increased in 5000 years …life expectancy?..is any "growth" limited by compact and Koriani see this as undesirable (and therefore not free to leave and continue to discover worlds…but then why not just carry on from Athera…they must have been desperate when they arrived on Athera to not just move on…or all the pilots were fed up of travel)?
Some of the information in the "way"stone is presumably a map of star systems so any leaver from Athera would know the way to plot their spaceship to the nearest available planet?
originally posted by Julie
The Koriani do not like being restricted.This coupled with their firm belief that humanity is the top of the food chain (as it were),and as guardians would resent the compact. I do not think the Koriani would leave Athera if given the chance, too much raw power to harness.
Also remember the other worlds that humans were allowed to settle on- the ones the gates connected. One kept their technology and became the mistwraith!
originally posted by DarthJazy
Wasn't the MistWraith done through the population being necromancers? I could be wrong if so what book was this in so that I may reread it.
originally posted by Annette
The Koriani Prime if given her free unimpeded will would leave Athera, Morriel indicated that when she tried to upset the compact with her meddling, she died that night. Morriel was willing to destroy Athera and all life on her, in order to get what she wanted. The Koriani Prime wants to restore the star spanning civilization humanity lost, and they want control of it, just as they were trying to gain originally. They have real power on Athera, that is why they never went through the south gate, they would have to give up the stored knowledge in the Waystone and other minerals they imprison, and they would lose most of their power.
Wanting to restore the civilization humanity lost, is not necessarily a bad thing, but they keep destroying themselves with or without the Koriani meddling to gain power. They have learned nothing, they would just destroy themselves again. Athera offers the path to the wisdom they need to go along with knowledge the Koriani have in their possession. Yet the koriani are rebelling against the very compact put there to protect them (and Athera's high resonance), and have obviously not embraced the Paravian way of life. The prime to eventually lead the Koriani and humanity to the stars, is likely to be Elaira.
But first they must restore human civilization on Athera so that Ithamon can be rebuilt. Cannot do that while the townborn and the clans are fighting, or while necromancers, the false religion of the Light and the koriani are imprisoning or attempting to destroy Athera's born talent. Also I think the dragons could be a problem. Humanity will need to make some agreement with the dragons maybe, since it seems like some will return. Lysaer might be the one for that task, use his talent to save his townborn from being roasted.
If you look at what we have seen in the books so far, have we not seen that the old home worlds left as cienders can be restored? Merak was a frozen lifeless world, her life web was being restored after Arithon took care of all the wraiths. Davien and Seshkrozchiel together created new life, in order to restore the lifeless Kathtairr the dragons had made lifeless.
Ath's adepts seem to be able to make dreams real by their access to prime power. If humanity restores not only Ithamon, but also can heal all the damage to Athera so that she also is fully restored, as well as embracing the ways of Ath's adepts, music and mages what will they have? Look at how the sages in the CotM prologue accessed the truth of what happened in their distant past?