The People of Tysan

originally posted by Hellcat

I'm wondering what the common people of Tysan now think of Lysaer's Religon/Government. Lysaer publicly announces that MOST of his inner circle are corrupt, arrests them in public and they disapear into his dungeons never to be seen again. He immeadiately leaves Tysan, with no queen, no regency. The people of Tysan MUST be begining to question his care for them, he's behaving like Richard Coeur De Lion, bleeding his country dry for his crusade, with no results.

I wonder if he will be able to raise yet another army? Especially to attack those who sheltered his Queen from his corrupt cabal. Is it really justice or vengence he is meeting out here?


originally posted by PurplePenny


he's behaving like Richard Coeur De Lion

…who had a brother who is generally reviled by history despite the fact that he was, in many ways, a better king. Hmmm … come to think of it John is usually depicted as being smaller and darker than Richard.

Unfortunately since many in England still regard Gare de Lyon* as a hero maybe there isn't any hope for the people of Tysan either.

* 1066 And All That.

originally posted by Blue

Spoilers Reliops

It is also possible that the people, having been suckered this long, think that their hero has already meted out justice, and is on his way to rescue the fair Queen, and take arms against those responsible for aiding and abetting the corrupt members of the council.

I wonder what the commoners make of the fire that swept the palace, when Lysaer [out of their sight, of course] threw off his light and burned those "dead" guards when they provoked the Curse just by mentioning Arithon?

Is it just me, or has the curse somehow gotten touchier in Lysaer? This is not the first time that mere mention of Arithon has set off the curse. Remember when he was grieving for Kevor, and Jeriayish [sp?] mentioned Lysaer's campaign against Arithon? He lost it there, too, in that he instantaneously gave up his grief to throw himself back into the fight.

originally posted by Trys



It's not just you. I think the Curse is getting more intense, in both Lysaer and Arithon. But in the latter case he can now master with music… but what happens if he gets in a situation where he has no time or insufficient time to thread the necessary melodies to control it?


originally posted by Hunter

I too am curious as to how the Alliance itself can continue when all the Alliance inner sanctum have now been killed or discredited. Who is actually running the place? Or is the Religion of Light now self-perpetuating and requires no leaders?

When Lysaer tried to kill Sulfin Evend in the bath with stone knife, it is perhaps one of the first times in recent books that Lysaer has actually started to think, or at least, question what is happening to him.

originally posted by Neil

I guess where population awareness is concerned (using 80!:20 rule…) 80% are too busy with their day-to-day lives and won't care or can't see all the detailed stuff that we, the reader, get to see.

The money/power in towns is in the hands of the trader leaders(?) These are the leaders and their interests go against charter law…the public need to work/eat so the choice is 1) follow and eat or 2) not follow and starve I imagine…the clan/F7 don't have a duty to feed the populace :slight_smile:

Lysaer is still in a position to encourage to gain town support (Etarra + necromancer disaster is blamed on Arithon…)

Yep Hunter. Lysaer allowed Sulfin the opinion (in 1 chapter at least…) that he might be cursed. *That* was interesting. Shame it didn't last… Is it only the biedar knife that stopped the curse or does Lysaer currently still have an occasional moment "freedom" to choose away from the curse? Based on the "erosion" of self over time I'm not sure…


My current question is the s'Brydians. They are "first rate strategists". If a renowned masterbard, initate, seer tells you to walk away…you'd be silly not to…they are stubborn; not stupid…my guess is that most will escape but Alestron could used as a target anyway => to buy Arithon/clans some time with some other lose ends?!?

originally posted by Elaine Thompson

I've been thinking along those lines, too, altho the scene with the reluctant mayor early in PG could have been designed to remove such hope. He's reluctant, but a few minutes of Lysaer's charisma and he's a convert. Still, Lysaer and his supporters' record now is pretty bad, and several someones in power in the towns ought to be noticing. My hope is that as SF is the end of the Alliance of Light arc, Lysaer will have less power at the end, there will no longer *be* an Alliance, and not because they win, but because Arithon pulls something really clever and Lysaer's corruption becomes visible enough to enough people. Maybe even himself (altho, that I doubt).

Neil wonders if Lysaer has any moments of freedom from the curse. Not many. He came close in the encounter with Ellaine and Kevor at the hostel. He had a minute or so, that we see through Sulfin Evend's eyes. But he can't make the right choice, the curse works against all that is Ath, so he rejects them and is even more hostile to such forces than before.

I finsihed PG thinking he needed a trip through Kewar or the equivalent. Even more, now.

What would Paravian justice *be* for him, anyway? They are understanding and compassionate. I'd been wondering why such people forged swords, and now Janny has answered - the swords aren't meant for standard human-expected-use. The Paravians didn't destroy the critters that the F7 are keeping under control, they kept the powers up that kept the critters from doing damage. Would they heal and forgive Lysaer, do you think, (after confrontation with all his sins), or …?

And I want to see what becomes of Sulfin Evend. I expect him to have an important role.

originally posted by Neil

I feel the Fellowship strands from COTM still hold. Lysaer still unites the towns of 4 kingdoms. I think the religion of the light will stick around for a while…but who knows?!?

The town humans aren't key to the future fate of Athera…Arithon is. I'm still confused why the F7 would be forced to destroy humanity. Why would the drakes/paravians distinguish between humans that respect the compact and those that do not? And wouldn't humans survive through the west gate? Why would the F7 be obliged to destroy them?

Sulfin Evend is the "star" of TK. He really jumps off the page. Enithen Tuer's prediction was that he was in for a hard time…even Asandir advised him to walk away :slight_smile:

Lysaer no longer has the right to live on Athera / F7 intercession. Since the paravians are unlikely to throw him into outer space where will they send him? Does the East or North gate have people that have been cast out of the compact before? Is Lysaer the first person to be outcast?

originally posted by Elaine Thompson

The religion of light sticks around, yes, we know that from the prologue of the first book. Doesn't mean it's as big as it is now. It might be a minor blip in the Atheran milieu with most of the population following Atheran-based belief and respecting Paravians etc. When/if the Paravians come back, it would be shocking (IMHO) if people didn't turn to them, given what they are. A large part of the current problems are due to them being gone for 500 years, so even the believers are taking everything basically on faith. That comes up in the encounter with the female caithden in … wherever it was [book is with my husband, now], where Arithon gets news of the necromancer threat. She doesn't understand the threat to Ath & the Paravians, or why Arithon must deal with it. or wtte.

I do notice that the F7 doesn't seem to be around by the time of the prologue (or someone could have just asked them about events of the time instead of having to scry for information) and have wondered if we're going to see their freedom, or at least how they might get it off-stage/later. Davien gives me the impression of wanting to be free of the drake's binding.

Why would the drakes/paravians distinguish between compact-respecting humans & those who don't? Those who do will dwell in harmony with the original inhabitants. Those who don't, won't. Isn't that enough? There are enough problems with the drakespawn, they don't need townies always messing up the wildlands, etc. Humanity doesn't have the resources & knowledge to get off the planet by spaceship, anymore - even if the F7 were willing to go that route, I get the impression it would screw up the Atheran forces. Why not send them through gates, I don't know. Because they could come back? Wouldn't get them far enough - the splinter worlds are linked to Athera, after all. I don't know.

originally posted by Technetus


For me, there's more to the Alestron situation than that: there's also Fionn Areth's birth augury.

To die in fire, this he appears to have been spared when Arithon snatched him out of Jaelot.

To die over salt water, Selidie's fiend storm could well have caused, especially as Dakar had a premonition of armed attack and casualties. Again, thanks to Arithon (who would have fallen as well, by the augury) he survived one brush with this fate.

Living to old age was the fourth possibility (listed third here), and not a pleasant one for Athera. Fionn's death somehow has a bearing on keeping the Mistwraith controlled.

The other was to die "landbound, in crossed steel and smoke". At last word, Fionn Areth is heading to Alestron with Vhandon and Talvish. Given the prevailing circumstances, this does not bode well. Arithon is also supposed to be betrayed somehow if this comes to pass.

Of course, given the twistiness of the story, Arithon's double is just as likely to die from getting too drunk then tripping and falling into a solstice bonfire as he would in battle at Alestron. He hasn't been "saved" for certain from any of these fates. Such is the series; ain't it grand? :wink:

originally posted by Neil


I haven't forgotten FA's birth prophesy :wink: Elaira's burden is to *choose* during the hour of trial…FA's to *give*…if not 5 kingdoms then athera plunge into darkness never to see sunlight/redemption…FA's death has impact on Arithon/Lysaer continued survival, I would guess.


I feel all of the F7 want to be free. Asandir's "we who are bound…" quote in GC, Davien conversation with Sethvir in TK. But if they were not bound, would they protect feel obliged the paravians anyway (Arithon/Davien in TK)?

I asked about the F7 obligation to destroy humanity if ever the compact became "broken". Why would this include the clans who *respect* the contact? I now guess that if such a future came to pass where the F7 forfeit their redemption the clans would already be effectivelly wiped out. And if a few survived this would hardly be "a win" according to the F7…

I cannot see how to equate paravian survival with annihilation of humanity…paravians could survive if you just killed the townborn…maybe the charge of the dragons is fairly unambiguous, I would guess humans are grouped "together" and no distinction would be made. Humanity would judged as a whole. Maybe humanity on athera is considered as one entity if you look behind the veil? But the clan have s' names which implies individuel awareness? I'm lost again…2 more arcs to go anyway.

I feel we can count the first two possibilites in Fa's birth prophesy as "seen" :wink:

originally posted by James A. Messick

Well it could be that Fion Areth could also die from the Gift of Light that Lysaer carries. Could the Koriani also have twisted his life aura so that is interaction with Arithon could make it more and more like Arithon's aura and so confuse the Geas from the Mistwraith? That could be a death by fire.

originally posted by James A. Messick

Possible Spoilers

oh um edit that please forgot that just the mention of Arithon's name provokes the curse so just the same look as him should definitely throw him for a loop.

I do think that Fionn Areth, since he's finally managed to shed his ignorance, may come to guard Arithon's sense of being as well as others. Have you ever noticed that Arithon seems to earn undying loyalty after a bit? Lysaer just seems to get surface loyalty where if they were educated they might turn a different way. I wonder if Sulfin Evend will help undermine the Alliance of the Light as a minor figure of power to the land?
Oh I was wondering of the S'Gannely gift of sight was a way of tempering the sometimes harsh justice so that it wasn't always so bad? Seems to me that more than once Sulfin was able to temper something that was to happen. I'm also wondering about that seer's knife. Since Sulfin is going to Sanspashir, without checking on the ideology there, I have to wonder how he's going to survive especially since he's supposed to be recruiting/returning the knife to it's original owner… You know could the tribes of the desert possibly be almost like the ath adepts? especially given the route of their religion? Might be that they are waiting for ari's daughter for something after all they worship a female deity with shadow. 'Course i'm assuming that since it's possible that Kevor inherited the gift of elemental mastery of light (think it was referred to twinges on the chords of creation in Peril's Gate) than ari's daughter could recieve the gift of shadow … though they might be passive since i haven't recieved any proof from my readings just some speculation.

originally posted by Trys

Who is ari?

originally posted by Andy

Come on? How about Arithon?

originally posted by Trys

Ok, then, Arithon it is. Not ari. :smiley: (I knew who you meant, but ari is not his name.)


originally posted by Blue

I wonder how Arithon would handle a nickname or a shortening of his name? For example, if he were dealing with a small child who could not pronounce "Arithon" properly.

My Uncle Marvin is known as "Bud" to one and all, because when he was born, my [then] two year old Aunt Ruth could not say "brother" properly, and called him her "budder," or her "bud." It stuck.

originally posted by Trys

I suspect that Arithon would react well to a child not being able to pronounce his name but wouldn't be amused if a bard deliberately mispronounced his name or worse applied some outrageous nickname (this is a reference to the Twinkle debacle of a few years back and I'm trying to head off another such event) to him. :smiley:


originally posted by Andy

I think his Grace of Rathain can take care of himself and woe to the poor unfortunate soul who ignites the notorious s'Ffallen temper.

originally posted by Trys

Yes, his Grace of Rathain, through the auspices of his Creator, can take care of himself. I'm just trying to avoid any need for that 'taking care' of to exhibit itself here… in the cyber-extension of my living room. It would not be a pretty site and I don't want to have to clean up the detritus. <bg>