Skirting the Major Balance

originally posted by Technetus

The Seven's power and philosophy is underpinned by exchange of permissions, which has me wondering about something.

How exactly was Davien able to prevent Dakar from following Arithon back into Etarra towards the end of TK? "…I will take forceful measures to prevent you" seems to rather directly curtail Dakar's free will, though it's not the only time one of the Seven has folded him with a seemingly unwanted sleep spell.

In the case of Davien, was his entitlement to act this way hinged upon Arithon's clearing of the Kralovir being clearly endorsed by the compact itself, as Asandir implied to Sulfin Evend? Or is his behaviour in this instance alluded to by the phrasing of the Black Rose prophecy?

originally posted by Konran

I suspect that the Fellowship may have secured a set of general permissions from Dakar at the time they accepted him for training. (I certainly would! XD!)

originally posted by Kirsten Laurelle Wallace

I could be wrong, as I didn't pull out the books to check it, but this is what comes to mind.

I always thought the Seven chose to follow that set of rules because they believed doing otherwise would eventually cause catastrophe. Also, Davien seems to view the rules as nothing but guidelines. It's why he doesn't get along with the rest of the fellowship on a regular basis. Remember that he caused the war that took down the high kings.

Anyway, as I said, I didn't look it up so I might be wrong. :smiley:

originally posted by Mark Stephen Kominski

Well, Asandir didn't have to obtain permissions from the soldiers of the Light who he put to sleep in the Strakewood (or was it the Caithwood? I also don't have the books with me at the moment and am too lazy to go up to the library and get them!), either. And they certainly woke up with far more lasting effects than Dakar did.

originally posted by Lisa

If i remember correctly Asandir was able to put all the soldiers to sleep because they were trying to burn down the forest (i cant remember which either) which is in violation of the compact. Somehow i dont think that Dakar trying to enter Etarra could be seen as a violation of the compact.

Perhaps Janny would care to shed some light?

I don't think Asandir did a thing to the townsmen – he merely allowed the forest to defend ITSELF.


originally posted by Mark Stephen Kominski

The forest needed his intervention to defend itself (ie, Asandir acted as a catalyst!). And the sleep came to all who were within the forest, whether they had burning on their minds or not (didn't the clans have to leave?). Who's to say that Dakar, as alluded above by Tech, wouldn't have actually been unintentionally aiding the Kralovir by attempting to intervene? Murky waters, these!

You Asked - I waited a day or so before response, because people were talkative. :smiley:

Also, HERE BE SPOILERS, so have a care if you haven't read all the way up through Stormed Fortress.

For Caithwood: Did Asandir have grounds and permissions. Yes. On Three counts, all in plain sight in the book.

Grounds: he states his authority "on grounds of the compact" - what occurs on Free Wilds territory is not up to mankind's prerogative. The Paravians are absent, therefore, responsibility and surety for mankind's acts there fall to the Sorcerers.

Asandir issued a direct warning, long in advance: to the captain who argued with him during his first confrontation after landing: (The camp trafficking in slaves) The Sorcerer declared, exactly what would happen to any "two legged inhabitant" who lit fires or bore killing steel…he announced he would be waking the trees.

This warning reached Commander Harradene, in a dispatch sent by the captain, giving reason for his camp's retreat to Valenford. Harradene was told in that report that the trees would be wakened by Fellowship action - the commander chose to scoff, and went through with Lysaer's orders…the scene is right up front, before the command to set fire was sent.

The direct warning, flouted, would be accounted a permission within territory where the Sorcerers held lawful authority.

With regard to Dakar's later handling, by Davien…the connections are close to debatable, but the verdict against would be sticky. Fellowship Sorcerers ALWAYS respond to the practice of necromancy, in one way or another. There are refs. all the way through, demonstrating this. In town territory, it's handled one way (due to the compact) in Free Wilds, quite another. In the chartered towns, quite another. See the appendix in either TK or SF, depending on your edition, for a clarification of how the law operates.

Etarra is not a charter town, or a recognized town, on designate territory.

Davien at the hour, was NOT in collaboration with his peers - he's known to act controversially. And tread a fine line.

His "grounds" to act - rested on two points, both on "thin ice" so to speak: Arithon gave his blood oath to survive to the Fellowship via Asandir. Davien would have chosen HIS WAY of interpreting "Arithon's survival" - and Dakar was only a spellbinder. Technically, he was NOT acting under either Sethvir or Asandir's direct orders; and he held Arithon's own permission - which, to Davien, constituted a problem, since an inopportune intervention by the spellbinder could have caused a conflict of interest, if not messed up the outcome of a tactic IMPLIED - that Davien's conversation indicates Arithon had his own plan in place, beforetime. This tactic, worked out ahead of Dakar's tardy arrival, was best not distrubed, and Dakar made plain his intent to bull into the mix, anyway.

The compact, too, could provide a lawful right for a Fellowship Sorcerer to intervene - Etarra lying on a major Lane - an act of necromancy at that junction would have caused a disruption of resonance that was far reaching, and damaging to a lot of critical territory.

SOMETHING would have happened, had Davien not acted…the rest of the Fellowship expected to be called in to help, by Arithon; that this option did not develop - we don't know what would have occurred if Davien had not stepped in.

That Davien (and presumably Arithon) had other ideas, and collaborated ahead - the clue for this was the blind old man disguise that Dakar could not "see" through on his arrival. The working was done by Davien's artistry, and repeated via the embroidery on the cloak, in Stormed Fortress. Upon Dakar's arrival at Etarra, it is very apparent Arithon had been seriously busy, arranging to carry out his charge to defeat the cult. The reader, and Dakar, are never told the extent of the plan, because, of course, someone would have acted to stop the enactment.

originally posted by Technetus

The difference between Sethvir's assistance to Sulfin Evend at Avenor, the clan handling of the cultist they intercepted following Ianfar's return, as well as across Etarra, Darkling and Jaelot did come across as different approaches, but I didn't actually register them as such until reading the above. Whoops. :wink:

The one that /did/ stand out was the difference between the cleansings of the necromancers' staff and knife, by Sethvir and Asandir respectively in GC and TK. While the objects would likely have resonated differently due to dissimilar-yet-related uses (it's not as easy to spill blood with a blunt instrument, after all) I get the impression they were objects from two different cults.

Might Traithe have guessed at the approach Arithon would use? Davien indeed states plainly that Arithon knew what he was about, which was also backed up by Arithon's behaviour before Raiett when brought in.

Even so, it's nice to see confirmation that Davien was tap-dancing on a tightrope in this case. :smiley:

Rockfell at solstice is a related instance to this point, though. Kharadmon implies, after the crisis is averted by Arithon, that Dakar was rendered unconscious by mutual agreement while the Sorcerer still resided within his body. But on what grounds did Luhaine put Fionn Areth out earlier? At the time, Arithon had not placed him under crown protection, nor was the goatherd particularly inclined to agree with magecraft…