Random Questions...

originally posted by Hellcat

I'm beginning the re-read. Though I keep on wanting to come onto the board and read Janny's posts to refresh my mind with more info…

So couple of questions to Janny… when she gets back and has finished with the hurricane season… (with apologies if these have been asked before.)

1) Did Lysaer's father have the gift of justice? If not how did it pass to Lysaer (my assumption here is that the gift is passed by genetic inheritance)

2) Did the F7 realise when they rendered Davien discorporate that it would unleash the Curse of Mearth? And why was the Five Centuries Fountain protected in the first place?


Hellcat –

You Asked.

I think I answered in depth, concerning the royal gifts - they are not linear in this fashion:

Due to the way they are transferred (a tale in itself) the gift will be "spread" between all direct descendents of the first forbear who swore oath to the Fellowship. It will not "pass" in equal measure: but like water flowing downslope, will "choose" the easiest route. Descendents with a natural tendency toward this trait in their character will "inherit" more of the gift than ones who naturally bend in another direction.

Further: the more descendents there are to "spread" the gift through, the less defined the inheritance…in some, it will be more pronounced, in others, not prominent at all.

Where there is only "one" descendent, the gift will fall to that one, and be expressed with virulently full force, no question.

This is why the line of descent varies, and why the Fellowship name the successor of ROYAL LINES always, without exception. Caithdeinen are Fellowship Named only in times when the royal line could fall into jeopardy and crown rule might fall to the shadow behind the throne. (see passage referring to that in Fugitive Prince when Jeynsa is named to succeed Jieret).

The royal gifts do NOT transfer to caithdeinen in case of failure of a lineage.

Therefore the degree to which a royal gift expresses is twofold: inherited potency (how many descendents there are who could "carry" the trait) added to personal CHOICE and CHARACTER: how is each individual inclined toward that gift in the first place.

In case of one descendent, but a character not inclined - you would see the gift express, but you would see the one in descended lineage at odds with its drive…there would be internal conflict with that gift…not a good situation.

In Arithon's case: his character is in accord with the gift, AND the gift, unstoppable as he is the only one living bearing the lineage.

In the case of Lysaer's father: given the man's extreme hatred, and the longterm erosion of his character in the course of a truly (you have no idea) BITTER feud: the gift of s'Ilessid justice WAS at play, or Arithon would have died in a messy way, rather than have been sent through the Gate as exile.

On your second question concerning Davien's being rendered discorporate: not much has been said about this. Many of you have "jumped to conclusions" as to the why and the wherefore of what happened. Davien WAS rendered discorporate by his colleagues…this was not done as "punishment" as many of you have supposed. Alot (ALOT!!) more was at play, and, at stake at the time…and it will unfold in due course. It's too wrapped up in what you see as the enigma behind Davien himself…and beware what you suppose in this case. Every speculation I have ever seen from readers, in Davien's case, has been wrong…colored by what you "suppose" the reasons to have been.

To explain why the Five Centuries' Fountain was guarded would give away too much - suffice to say this: the Fountain was a test of sorts.

The escape of the shadows happened at the time of Davien's being rendered discorporate. The six Sorcerers did not know it would happen.

More I cannot say - it will unfold in due time. You will see more of Davien, and will BEGIN to unwind the very first strand of his motivations in Traitor's Knot.

There will be MORE…I don't expect this subject to quiet down until said is done, and Arc 5 is fully complete.

originally posted by Konran

"… this was not done as "punishment" as many of you have supposed."

Oooh, interesting. Is it possible that, just like he went into exile of his own will, he ASKED to be rendered discorporate, for whatever reason? (guilt, diabolical master plan, for the hell of it) … maybe a Sorcerer couldn't render himself discorporate and has to have help? … I'm probably way off here… *imagines Janny crying tears of laughter onto her keyboard and shorting it out from all our harebrained theories*

originally posted by Konran

… and another thing…

"the SIX Sorcerers did not know it would happen" (shadows of Mearth)

… does that mean Davien DID know they'd be freed?

originally posted by Kam

So Arithon gets a double dose of compassion? That can't be healthy for a guy.

Meanwhile, my mind is reeling from what Janny has just revealed… I, I shamefully admit, assumed that Davien was punished (and was probably rather miffed about it)

Yeah, I agree with Konran! Janny? Any answers? :smiley:


originally posted by Konran

I think we all just naturally went from "He did a bad thing" to "He got punished for it". Another thing I was thinking about. Someone pointed out that Janny makes a point of mentioning his ring every time he shows up. Something about that ring's been bothering me. Maybe the ring has something to do with his "It's a bird! It's a ghost! No, it's a Sorceror!" trick.

originally posted by Vicki C

I think I assumed that it was a punishment more from the comments and asides that other (ie not F7) characters have mentioned. Janny, is it right that the 'common man' had the same view of Davien's rendering as we did?

Traitor's Knot will give you all a little more insight…as this thread deepens and broadens.

"Answers" at this point would but definitely be spoilers.

Vicki C - regarding your question - I can't really answer unless I can understand your parameters: define what you mean by "common man" - at this point in Athera's history, each faction of mankind will lean toward a different viewpoint - radically biased in accord with what they hold in belief.

originally posted by Leo James

Would I be right in thinking that Davien as discorporate would be unable to open the Rockfell pit and as he released the last contents (Iyats - I think) it could have been an attempt to make a repeat performance difficult.

originally posted by Konran

If I'm correct, Davien as corporate wouldn't be able to open Rockfell either. Doesn't it take one corporate and one discorporate Sorcerer to do the job?

originally posted by Vicki C

Hmm, sorry Janny. I guess my assumption was that all thought that he had been rendered discorporate as a punishment, but that the differing factions disagreed as to whether his act needed punishment or not.
In trying to remember back to where I picked this impression up from, I can’t think of a single quote. It’s a fabric of various comments and they have come from Koriani, Town, Clan and Arithon himself, I think.
Personally, I'd be most interested to know what the clans feel happened; what they think the reasoning for his changed state-of-being was.
*sigh* I guess I really should just wait for the book itself!

Vicki - the clans' attitude toward Davien was quite vividly displayed by Hewall and the scout escorting Arithon through the Mathorns in Peril's Gate - when they encounter Davien, they display open distrust and enmity, and but definitely don't want him in Arithon's proximity - this bias would be due to left over rancor from the uprising and the death of the High Kings, and the upset of old law, which has demonstrably left the clans hanging on - out on a limb and persecuted, in a struggle to survive.

They'd feel the Sorcerer's state was "deserved justice" and probably not look any deeper into the matter. If you think you saw a Fellowship Sorcerer say "punishment" - look again…it didn't happen. Bias would have been read "into" their very specifically noncommital statements…one needs to look at the words on the page most closely, and without coloring them with presuppositions.

This series is all about overturning presuppositions - the readers' and the characters. So don't feel dumb if you get the whiplash - it's part and parcel of how this story rips off the layers of presupposition. Understanding means wearing the shoe on the other foot - and that means, changing the angle of view in opposition.

originally posted by skeoke

Was Davien dis-corporated to protect him from the High Kings' (heirs) justice?

{Popped into my head last night while I wasn't sleeping.}

originally posted by Michael Pearson

If Davien was rendered discorporate by the rest of the F7, doesn't he had to request or at least agree to it, because of the Law of the Major Balance.

originally posted by Neil


I would imagine that an F7 with all his faculties intact could avoid all but the most troublesome of humans…but then who knows what a high king could do with his jewels if he chose?

I guess that when Davien was rendered discorporate, the high kings were no longer in control so it's a mute point perhaps…

Nice idea though and we know that F7 don't want Arithon aware of his crown jewels fucntions…curious that a masterbard law would not encompass this kind of knowledge? Maybe the royal jewels are a well kept secret.


I would guess that the F7 were obliged by compact or drake binding to limit Davien in some way…it does not seem to have worked though since he has an ambiguous corporate status for the moment…but maybe he, too, cannot go anywhere near grimwards or pass certain wards/gates? For that he needs Arithon?

originally posted by Andy

Maybe he consented to being rendered discorporate for reasons we do not yet understand.


originally posted by neil

Maybe, but Davien dislikes the state "intensely" and this change seems to have been a frustrating challenge for him. So I'd guess it was not his choice.

2.25 arcs to go yet :wink:

originally posted by Hannah

we know that F7 don't want Arithon aware of his crown jewels fucntions…curious that a masterbard law would not encompass this kind of knowledge? Maybe the royal jewels are a well kept secret.

I know that I've pulled a seriously long shift today, and am more-than-slightly giddy at the impending weekend, but… I giggled a lot harder and longer at this than I should have. I'm a dork, I know.


originally posted by Trys

LOL Hannah!! I completed missed that when I read it.

originally posted by Neil

I now wonder why the sovreignty of athera passed to mankind from the paravians? Does a high king imply a low king (or would this be an earl?)

We know the paravian presence is a lot for humankind to endure but are they insufficiently numerous or unable look after Athera themselves…are they kind of "retired" from redeeming drakespawn? No kings anymore? Were the parvians kings all killed?!? Have more the responsibilies passed to mankind/F7 than at first appears?

Both paravians and human appear to have failed to control the meth-snakes…