originally posted by Neil

I reread a little of FP last night - scenes with Moriel & F7. I found 2 details:

1) The Great waystone was 'lost' to the Koriani in the *first hour* of the rebellion.

- Curious, Moriel was prime 500 years ago? She is more than 1000 years old and must have become prime whilst having the Great waystone. How did she loose it? Odd…was it part of Daviens's strategy to deprive the Koriani of their most powerful tool?

Were the koriani too busy trying to save lives somewhere?

2) The *Skyron has 1000 oaths* in it.

If the great waystone, was lost for around 500 years, this makes 2 initiate oaths per year. Slow recruitment by Koriani…so talent is hard to find?

originally posted by Hunter

The timeline I have has Morriel becoming Prime in Third Age 4212 - the current time is 5670 so she's been prime for over 1400 years. So yes, she's old. If I remember correctly, the Great Waystone was lost from a Koriani hospice - presumably ransacked when the rebellion started. Exactly what the Koriani, and Morriel in particular were doing at the time, is probably a good question.

Regarding your second point, prior to the rebellion, the prime of people with talent were allowed to join the Koriani and it was relatively prestigious to do so - how would Lirenda have joined otherwise? After the rebellion, the Koriani were forced to start getting orphans and others to populate their ranks. We see this clearly in how Elaira came to join the Koriani. So I think, yes, talent was hard to get.

originally posted by Neil

Traithe says in COTM that the senior circle was negligent to leave the GW unwarded or something like that…

I note that there are stone gryphons in Althain tower.

Trys, you saw that? (I didn't before…or didn't pursue the "detail"…)

Have there ever been living gryphons on Athera? Would they have been drakespawn :slight_smile: ?

originally posted by Trys

Neil, I saw that. :smiley: If they were drakespawn they were no relatives of mine. <g>

originally posted by R’is’n


If Dakar's prophecies are even half accurate, then there will be a new city at some stage in the Daon Ramon Barrens.

Did anyone else notice that he also pictured a 'briar' growing around it? (er… book's not at hand - british version tho.)

Doesn't 'briar' produce roses? i.e. Dakar's prophecy?

(Still waiting on TK - so reading FP & GC in the meantime…again!!!)

originally posted by R’is’n

Also early in FP, (again, sorry, haven't got the ref.) Morriel kept refusing to believe that she was hearing (to misquote) 'whisperings of stone' and flatly denied the sentience of anything other than human - further access to power was in front of her all the time… and because of the limiting beliefs of Koriani magical theory, she missed it!

Instead, she possessed Seldie - until then she too was protected by the compact… and now just protected by the fact that she's in Seldie's body.

If she had 'listened' to that sentience - imagine how different her attitude to the F7 and compact would have been!!!


Which also explains why she's so pissed at the F7 - she thinks they don't allow the Waystone to work on the planet - she doesn't understand that they merely gave the planet Athera the power to refuse the waystone…

Just had an 'aha' moment. :smiley:

originally posted by neil

In GC, I note that when Fionn is travelling in the southern end of Rathain there is mention of a dragon's eyrie.

One of the guys in the group even winks at Fionn and say that all Old dragons are dead. I feel that it's Janny who's doing the winking here :wink:

I think there are still several seemingly innocent references in the books that later are going to makes us say "what? How did I miss that?"

I note that the sunchildren also had painted boats on the rivers…hadn't seen that before either…

Are all 3 races of paravians equally difficult for humans to withstand? Why 3 races? why the need for 3 different "types", I wonder?

originally posted by Neil

Back again…I note that when Arithon is called to help with the lane flux in PG that Kharadmon was obliged to "break a seal".

Does this mean that the Fellowsip hid the full scope of Arithon's initiation at the affirmation of the right of succession? Why? Because of the curse?

originally posted by Neil

In PG the Centaur tells Lysaer that Arithon has been oathsworn to uphold Rathain's charter, and for shame.

I never understood the "and for shame". Does the Centaur disapprove of the F7's actions?

This takes me back to Asandir in CotM when he kind of tricks Arithon into feeling responsible even when Asandir *knows* that Arithon is not responsible. The F5 do not always act in Arithon's best interest…will they lose his trust?

originally posted by tanith duong

Can anyone tell me what the next books Tittle is?

originally posted by Blue

Stormed Fortress.

Any titles after Stormed Fortress have yet to be announced by Janny.

originally posted by Jo

I re read PG for what seems like the 100th time and I also never understood that line

Arithon has been oathsworn to uphold Rathain's charter, and for shame. I think you may be right as if the centaur didn't like Arithon being king then why come to him in Kewar?

originally posted by Blue

I think with the questions about that line, "…and for shame," we should add:

Yes, Janny, we're asking


originally posted by Neil


I have a lot of "perhaps" here…it's all guess work until arc 5 is finished.

I don't think that the centaur is disapproving of Arithon's decisions / actions…Arithon is only human…humans err…Ariton seems to have saved himself from most of his guilt.

Perhaps the centaur encourages redemption for the last little details that Arithon still quite can't deal with on a person-to-person level (e.g. not being able to condone the guardsman's death => the paravian encourages Ariton not to feel helpless and that he *can* act).

However, perhaps the paravians may not always agree with the fellowships' *means* even though they signed up all to the compact to keept their planet in good shape.

Arithon is perhaps a tool in the Fellowship's hand (as are all the royal lines…F7 responsibility therefore) and his free will has been distorted on some level simply because the Fellowship is convinced that keeping Arithon alive is the only route to the long term "solution" seen in strand in CotM. Arithon chose but he chose without all the information to hand.

Perhaps Davien sees an alternative with higher risks… and is prepared to see Arithon suffer a little more that the F5 would … no pain no gain?

Then again…it's never simple in this series so I'm probably way out :slight_smile:

originally posted by Neil

When Sethvir believes all is lost and starts putting his daily diary into crystal, there are dark things under earth. And some where else underwater dragon caves?

No "window dressing" in this series apprarently…

In another chapter Sulfin mentions townborn factions giving money to Lysaer does he refer to necromancers or yet more hidden factions? (Are there comings and going to/from North/West gates?)

originally posted by Brad

When he says for shame I'm pretty sure it means, it's a shame that Arithron HAS to be oathsworn as he would much rather only be the Masterbard.

Ah, You asked -

the above, and also -

the "for shame" ref, is for Lysaer, additionally, who has broken covenant with the old law and the compact, and attempted to malign a sanctioned crown prince for his own vanity.

The vanity part is NOT the same thing as the curse, albeit though the curse would magnify that weakness.

originally posted by Neil

Rereading…when Luhaine is looking after Althain during Sethvir's absence, a fair amount of paravian "hardware" is mentionned. Curiously some paravians were killed by swords during 1st or 2nd age?

Who was wielding these swords I wonder?

There have been paravian and human high kings. Does this imply "low kings"?

originally posted by Hunter

This is probably the same question as who the assassin was who murdered High King Marin Eliathe that caused the Justice sun tower at Ithamon to crumble and collapse?

If we look at the drake spawn we know about:
- Seardluin are feline, probably unable to hold a sword
- Khadrim - similarly unable to hold a sword I would think
- Methuri- hate wraiths are a possibility depending on what they inhabited.

One option would be if there was another, now extinct form of drake spawn that has yet to be mentioned? More humanoid in shape?

originally posted by Neil

Bipid dragons / drakespawn…scary…