originally posted by Trys

Spoiler post moved from Traitor's Knot: Preview 2

originally posted by Silvia

Just being provocative…

Davien seems like a clever chap. Not quite sure why he's not more interested in dealing with this wraith issue. I mean, yes, he's the Betrayer, but he also seems to quite like being alive - he doesn't seem to view life as a burden in the way that Asandir occasionally seems to, for example - and he must know that the wraiths, if they get out, are going to cause significant problems even for him. Also, he seems to have a lot of fun messing with people - if the wraiths escape, no more people to mess with. He's not wholly uninterested in the fate of the human race, or he wouldn't regard the rebellion as his version of Arithon's Havens debacle. Which brings me back to the question - why doesn't he have a little look at these wraith things himself? Is he just being stubborn?

Anyone else think Halliron was a bit selfish making poor Arithon into a Masterbard - yet another responsibility - now if he dies without a successor he'll have killed off the s'Ffalenn bloodline and ended the line of Masterbards. Poor guy.

On the other hand, perhaps Arithon should consider taking a more positive view of life, and being a little less self-absorbed. Don't gape, boys and girls, wait a minute, here. Ok, so he can't do what he wants to do and be with who he wants to be with, but he has the opportunity to help save the world and bring the Paravians back! Isn't that kind of exciting? Isn't it better than being powerless? Isn't it incredibly selfish of him to think 'Naa, this sucks, I wanna play music and hang out with my girlfriend, or at least just drop dead - this whole saving humanity and securing the return of ineffable and sublime beings is a real bore'. Also, I remember in CotM when Asandir told him that he was the only one who could bring about the return of the Paravians (or something like that) he went off in an almighty huff and then Lysaer got pretty grumpy with Asandir too. Well, sorry boys, but what about Asandir? He's got the weight of the world on his shoulders too. Is it really fair to expect him to just let the world go to pieces and forget about Unicorns and so forth just because of some pretty, musical kid with a bleeding heart? No.

Finally - why is everyone so bothered that Arithon and Elaira can't get it on. Ok, it sucks. But weigh it up: fate of the world v. Arithon getting his rocks off with his chick. Hmmm. Also on this point - why did DAKAR have to 'help him out'? (Ick.) Why couldn't Elaira do it. Fully clothed, you understand, arm's length, quick hand-job…Morriel can't be THAT good at getting people pregnant, surely? Unnecessary humiliation. Actually I was slightly sickened by that whole affair (which I think was kind of the point)?

originally posted by maxine marie pankonin

I like your view Sylvia!!! I like it alot. Thank you for the crack up; that was priceless!!

originally posted by Mitchell Dowd


Why couldn't Elaira do it. Fully clothed, you understand, arm's length, quick hand-job…


originally posted by Sean Monahan

"Anyone else think Halliron was a bit selfish making poor Arithon into a Masterbard"

No. As Masterbard, he was honor-bound to find a successor, or else his skills lost to Athera for all time. That is, it would be selfish for Arithon to decline. Of course, Arithon himself asked Hilliron for the position, as he swore to Felerin.

Furthermore, the 5 years as apprentice allowed Arithon peace and joy, to travel the world, and to study music, his life's passion. His mage-sight blinded, the music provided him a connection to Ath's mysteries, and subsequently saved his life on more than one occasion.

originally posted by Auna

Elaira couldn't do it because it might have activated the already partially activated snare. That's what I got out of the reading and the reason she was kept away from him until they were done.

I can understand Arithon's not wanting to rule. It would be hard on anyone to be a ruler if they had foresight to see what their decisions will do to others and a strong compassion that cannot be turned off or ignored and be mage trained to boot. However, he appears to be getting his act together and I can't wait to see what surprises he springs on us all!

originally posted by Trys


Elaira couldn't do it because it might have activated the already partially activated snare. That's what I got out of the reading and the reason she was kept away from him until they were done.

Auna, my take on that scene as well.


originally posted by Timothy


No… it wasn't the pregnancy that was the issue. It was the sigil that Morriel had imprinted on Elaira that would cause every woman he umm… slept with to become pregnant. It would have been activated if Elaira helped Arithon.

originally posted by Lyssabits

I think that there were so many other ways that Arithon and Elaira could have been kept apart that this method was clearly a distinct choice. :wink: Elaira needn't have been given that order in the first place. I mean, Morriel's tried that tact before, and failed, so both Elaira and Arithon would be expecting something sneaky. I like that she's recaptured the element of surprise by using misdirection, and I think there's a lot more up her sleeve. If the trap had been completely disarmed, Elaira would have been recalled.

My personal belief is that is wasn't the author not knowing what to do, but rather, that Janny is a tease. :wink: I mean, I'm sure this is going to lead us somewhere eventually, but for now, this is probably the meanest thing she could do to those of us heavily invested in Elaira's and Arithon's romance, and I think she enjoys teasing us. Goodness knows I would in her place. Nothing quite like the howls of frustrated readers to warm your heart. :wink:

I have to say that I thought it was a fairly ingenious idea of Selidie's, and despite what a crazy mean woman I think she is, I enjoy the fact that she's not deterred, and that she's so clever. I've always kind of had a soft spot for Morriel, I'm not sure why. She's one of those villians you love to hate, because she's not completely evil, there are pitiable things about her and things to respect about her. Makes for a person whom you'll never agree with, but can never completely despise. And makes you look forward to the day when your hero finally defeats her for good. Because humbling someone easily is no fun at all.

originally posted by Auna

This was an awesome scene for me because I was anxiously hoping the intervention could happen in time and sweating that Dakar wouldn't find them in time because of course I didn't want the Koriani to win! And though it was awful to read, I was relieved that Dakar got there in time to 'save the day'. Then, later, Dakar gets slapped upside the head about his lack of trust by Elaira. Well, I as the reader also felt shamed too for my part. And I realized that post Kewar, Arithon is vastly more self reliant and definitely should be trusted. The end of the book also re-emphasizes that to me the reader as well as the Fellowship.

So, for me the scene had a ton of meaning and is setting up a lot of stuff for the future.

I also thought it perfectly reasonable to keep the two separate after the sigil was becoming activated since you do not want to ever understimate Morriel/Selidie. I also think she would do well to not understimate Arithon/Elaira!

originally posted by Jeffrey L Watson

The flame posts have been deleted and will not be tolerated!

originally posted by Selene

These messages always make me wish I were in another time zone so I could read the posts before they were deleted. Perhaps that's just me, incessantly curious *g*

Many forums I frequent forbid attacks ad hominem. What exactly are the rules here, I'm wondering? The few times I read posts that were later deleted, they seemed simply critical. If this place practices censoring, I would like to know.


originally posted by Jeffrey L Watson


The posts that were recently deleted essentially said unkind things about Janny and were done in total anonymity (an unregistered name without e-mail)… not that it would have much difference to my deleting them. The anonymity in my opinion is indicative of a personality that feels the need to lash out but won't stand behind their words.

Previous ones that I deleted were 'beating a dead horse' in regards to the US edition of TK.

The following is not an attack on you but you asked so here it is as forthright as I can give it.

There are no hard and fast rules. But think of this Chat Area as being an extra room in my home. Anything that I consider to be inappropiate for my living room is inappropriate here. People visiting here should act with all due respect and consideration just as if they were in my living room.

Thoughtful and considerate posts on virtually any subject (as long as they are in the appropriate topics) are acceptable (there are subjects that are not allowed and I see no reason to give examples). But when the posts are nothing more than complaints that neither Janny nor I can address then they are inappropriate and will be deleted.

Is that censorship? That's for you to decide. The definition of the word is hazy at best (i.e., one person's censorship is another person's consideration).

On the other hand, anyone is free to setup their own little corner of the internet and run it how they see fit.

With all of that said, let me add that I greatly enjoy having all of you come and visit Janny (and me) here and it is a pleasure to maintain this area. But I must say when all the crap was flying through here prior to TK's release, I was very, very, very, very close to shutting it down because of the unpleasant apprehension of finding more unreasonable (at least in my opinion) complaints everytime I logged in. So to avoid those kinds of feelings I've been much more diligent about not allowing nasty threads to grow.

Jeff Watson

originally posted by skeoke

:sending good thoughts, love and support to counteract above deleted posts:

originally posted by neilw

Mr. Watson,

Please don't shut this site down at least not before the final arc :smiley:

Allow me to step in and manage it for bit while you cool down and when you're calm again you could take up the reigns again.

If there is not a Janny site, someone would need to create one. Hence shutting it down would not solve the problems :wink: They would just reappear on another site…

Thanks for existing by the way :wink: I tend to thank you once a year I think? Hope that's enough :wink:

originally posted by Jeffrey L Watson


I'm quite calmed down after the storm earlier this year and I now have a better understanding of how to manage them. I've no plans to shut this Chat Area down I was just trying to explain what will prompt me to delete posts. :smiley:

And yes your thanks are enough and I do remember you saying thanks before.

And please, no need to call me Mr Watson, granted I'm the eldest left in my immediate family but still… <grin>


originally posted by Selene


I don't feel attacked of course. :smiley: I think all good forums are moderated because there are always trolls who come along only for the sake of causing troubles and I certainly agree that any attacks ad hominem should be deleted.

I don't know if your rules can be defined censorship because I don't know what you're deleting, really, and you have not told me what topics are forbidden either. But the living rooom analogy strikes me as appropriate. :smiley:


originally posted by Iris Timm


Thanks for everything. And to those who take the time to contribute insightful and funny posts, thanks. This is the most amazing chat site I have found. A thought-provoking group of members, productive and meaningful discussions, (not to mention funny) all have added tremendously to my enjoyment of Janny's work. If the burden gets heavy, I too will help…just let me know.


originally posted by Trys


Thanks for the offer and the kind words.


originally posted by max

Sooo… Well I have finished the book this week and I have to say I have never been so hard on a book before in my life! Read most of it in the hammock under trees that shed year round and shed a wet leaf on one page, another several pages have a spot of red kool-aid on them. I fell asleep one day and the book fell out of the hammock. My daughter's dog was laying in the hammock and took to scratching around for a more comfortable position, but that mark is almost invisible. ILOVED IT!! [to death] I was afraid the poor volume wasn't going to make it to the end but it's OK. Thank you Janny. Between your book and the hammock it was a wonderful shortie, vacation. Your poetic use of language has embroidered a world of fey beauty and savage mystery. The hours I spent reading were well spent.