Map Question

originally posted by YT

After spending some time looking at the on-line map available on this site, I noticed something a bit odd…

In approximately the center of the map, spreading to the south and west of Crater Lake, near Araethura, there seems to be a good-sized chunk of land which is not claimed by any of the five kingdoms.

1) Is this true? It's a little unclear in the maps available in the books, but with the color added in the on-line map, it seems as though this is outside any national borders. Am I misreading this?

2) If true, why? For the most part, national boundries seem to align to geographical boundries (rivers, mountains, seas, etc.), Following this, the land in question would seem to naturally fall in the province of Rathain, and there seems to be nothing in the area of any significance which would indicate otherwise. Am I missing something obvious here?

Mostly just looking for speculation here, but if anyone in the know (read: Janny) has anything to say, it would be appreciated :smiley:

originally posted by Angus


I took a look, and you are right, this area is out of the colour-coded sections of the maps, between Araethura in Rathain and Lanshire in Havish. However, if you put your mouse pointer on the area in question, it says "Southwest Rathain".

There are no pop-ups for that area, so maybe the highlighting of it was just overlooked.

Of course, this is just my guess. We need to hear from the people "in the know (read: Janny)", as to what this might mean. Maybe it's a spoiler?


originally posted by Hunter

FWIW, my $0.02, in lieu of better knowledge, is that the line marked on the interactive map as a kingdom border down the mountain range dividing Lanshire from Araethura is a river emptying into the very bottom of Instrell Bay east of East Bransing, not a kingdom boundary. So that pocket east of the very northern tip of the Storlains is part of Lanshire.

It is a solid line, not the dot-dash pattern of a kingdom boundary.

Of course, I would never be so bold, indeed so rude, as to suggest the minutest possibility that there is an implication of a potential incorrection, a skerrick of deviation from what is correct in this map provided by ye mighty gryphon.

Interestingly there is a Second age road that runs the width of the continent through here, from Jaelot in the east to ruins on the western side of Hanshire.

(read Janny)

There is a section of this map that's outside Kingdom Boundaries, it isn't a mis-marked as river.

You go figure - speculate and guess all you like.

It's not an accident! Not a bit.

And been in plain sight all along.

As so many things are, and have been, and will be.

Arcs 4 and 5 are not spurious repeats and rehashes.

Yup, there's a genuine pattern and direction to all this stuff.

You'll see.

originally posted by Angus

I knew it! It's a SPOILER! But it still says "Southwest Rathain" when the mouse is on it, but there is something bigger here.

Any hints on Arc 4 and 5? PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?!? Nothing spoiling, just some broad ideas…

Is this the High King of Athera's demesne?


Frustratingly waiting until November 5

Hmmm (chuckle!!)

(author musing on what sort of bribe she'd accept…ahem…but on that score, even the mighty Wurts imagination – apparently – fails!!!)


Ack - (looks down in dismay…) got darned paint in the keyboard again!

Back to the cover dept…where she belongs, anyhow…not hookeying about lurking the chat, noooooo!

originally posted by Hunter

Hmpf… well… fancy that…

Kaithtarr is outside Kingdom borders, as Cascains are. Presumably Kingdom borders stop at the ocean?

originally posted by Hunter

still looks like a river to me… :smiley:

originally posted by Neil

On Trys' interactive map those are kingdom borders , albeit one part follows a river, forming a "loop" of land…I wonder whether our resident gryphon noticed this and kept silent?

Or is it a mistake?

Did Janny *really* admit this piece of land is outside Rathain. I'm not sure…

Are the islands east and west of paravia "outside" the kingdoms?

Is the desert of Sanpashir "independent", I wonder?

originally posted by Matthew

Is this bit of unclaimed land where the fellowship and/or humanities starship crashlanded?

The fellowship wouldn't unmake items, Arithon learnt the hard way with the quarrel… and i imagine they're too big to pass through the gates. Maybe they're stored in that area and warded. Being near 'crater lake' it's a possibility.

If the starship isn't there it raises the question of where is it? Davien has been credited with saying that humanity should be resupplied and told to move on after they asked for help… so it implies the ship didn't require repairs and was functional. Do you think any of the refugees decided that they didnt want to stay on Athera and left?

originally posted by Matthew

What's on the island of Myrkavia in west shand? the area is renouned for shipwrecks… maybe its uncharted?

originally posted by Neil

I just noticed…myrkavia…seems I am not the first.

originally posted by Annette

Myrkavia it is not uncharted, if it is in the middle of a harbor and ships have to navigate around it. Possibly there is a hidden island in a larger group of islands that was left out of any maps, and warded from any detection.

When the Mistraith's hold first started to weaken, the Koriani recorded sunlight first seen at the isles of Min Pierens. And at around the same time sunlight was seen on the island where Ciladis was sleeping. But if only paravia was covered by the mistwraith, maybe the island could be about the same distance from Paravia, but on the other side.

There is an uncharted island south east of Paravia, where Arithon used to pick up supplies during his search for the Paravians. I would think an island we were already told was previously uncharted, and which Sethvir did not seem to be able to directly access would be a more likely suspect. On the map the island is called Los Lier, which Janny has never given us the Paravian translation for.

Los -?
Lier -exalted edge or land

Los Mar came from the Paravian
Liosmar - letters, written records
mar could be reflect thought
li - exalted
os - ?
I am thinking o is old, but you never know.

We will get the Paravian translation for Los Lier in the next book most likely, because I suspect Arithon visited there before Selidie entrapped him, or he will be visiting there in the next book and encountering a certain unicorn.