originally posted by Kimberly Israel
"Not to burst anyone's bubble, but just because Fionn Areth didn't die in fire in Jaelot doesn't mean he can't in the future."
True, but his birth prophecy also says Elaira will get to choose whether he dies in fire. I just can't see Elaira choosing anyone's death.
originally posted by Hannah
What choice would Elaira have though, knowing that Arithon is a key component to the Paravian's possible restoration and the wraiths' conquer. Wholly apart from her personal feelings for Arithon, you have to take in to consideration Arithon's importance vs. Fionn Areth's.
But then again, you don't want to play god and go judging certain people more important than other people, because how can you know?
/random
originally posted by Annette
I've just been re-reading the series. I have a thought on why Davien took an interest in Arithon's plight after 500 years of being uninterested in anything happening on the planet (or off it for that matter). Maybe he caused the uprising because he wanted the high kings to be off-world so that the future would have Arithon and Lysaer coming through the gate with their powers because Arithon (and possibly Lysaer) are the only ones that can save the planet and the uprising had to happen in order for the future to unfold in a certain way. But then I don't know why Sethvir wouldn't have known that was the reason for Davien bucking the system. And now is the time for Davien to take charge of Arithon and have him learn what he needs to learn to save Athera (again!). Does this make any sense?*?*!!??
I am not explaining myself very well.
Sorry.
originally posted by John Parsons
This very stimulating thread has raised a thought in my mind.
Perhaps the similarity between Arithon's Havens and Davien's is much closer.
Arithon sacrificed 500 to try to save 40,000 in the same army
Perhaps Davien could see the rebellion coming and started it sooner to minimize the lives lost?
John
originally posted by Blue
Spoiler ALERT!
Warning!!
Unfortunately, time constraints forced Janny to split Stormed Fortress into 2 volumes, Traitor's Knot [TK] and Stormed Fortress [SF].
Initially, I was disappointed, because it felt like the story just CUT OFF… Like those damned two part episodes of favorite TV Shows - "Tune in again next week, same Bat Time, same Bat Channel!"
On the other hand, HOW long would it have taken to get SF into my hot little grubby paws?
That being said, TK did a helluva good job whetting the appetite for more!
What is going to happen to Alestron? Mearn and Dawr were the only ones to give Arithon at least half an ear at that meeting.
Will Jeynsa ever let go of her grief and trust her Prince?
What the blazes is Davien really up to?
What will the Paravians do, now that they have sensed Arithon's commitment through his ritual that helped purge the Kralovir?
What other possible cults or unclean practices lurk unseen in the background?
What will Selidie do now that the Waystone has been cracked and altered? I'm actually surprised that Davien's little trick with the fire didn't alter it previously, since most citrine available on the market today is heat treated Amethyst.
Will Arithon and Elaira ever get a chance to make love without half of the clans of Rathain either snickering about it, or trying to stop them?
Will Fionn Areth ever get a clue?
originally posted by christopher john bowler
There is one person I think will appear in the next installment WoLaS's, I think he has been forgotten about! I also think he will have a very important role to play in bringing everything together and that would be our good friend Ciladis the lost!. Davien thinks that he is being confined some where by whom we do not know as yet. he probably found the Paravians and they have no choice but to keep him captive, to keep the place where they now live a secret from everybody on Athera. Though this is just a theory!
originally posted by linda evans
in reply to christopher april 2005
i think you're right. the clue was in perils gate
welcome back cilidas
ps. have thoroughly enjoyed series so far, look forward to next installment
originally posted by Andy
I think we do know who is "confining" Ciladis, although "confining" might not be the right word. If I recall correctly, somewhere in the first book, in one of the one-sentence flash glimpses, a unicorn notes the return of sunlight from the entrance to a cave or on some island, with a Sorceror lying on the ground beneath some kind of sleep enchantment. We can deduce that this must be Ciladis, since he is the only unaccounted F7. I guess it is relative, but to the Paravians, he might be "Ciladis the Found."
originally posted by Hunter
Ciladis the Lost to the Fellowship
Ciladis the Found to the Paravians
Depends on your point of view… which is what this series is about.
The phrase is "the Sorceror sealed under sleep spells within"… there are only a couple of options here - either the Paravians sealed Ciladis, or he sealed himself inside as I doubt the Paravians would have forced Ciladis. My thought is that he's sealed by his consent until a specific action or occurrence happens that will cause him to awake. The unicorn I think is there as a guard to protect Ciladis, not as a jailer to ensure he doesn't escape…
originally posted by Hannah
TK SPOILERS BELOW:
And didn't Davien say something to the effect that their (F7) great fear was that something was holding Ciladis, restraining him from returning in effect. You'd think that they would have voiced speculation about Paravians, if that was a remote possibility. But you can count on one hand the things on Athera that could restrain a Fellowship Sorcerer. Lessee… Paravians, Drake/some kind of Drake Spawn we haven't encountered, another Fellowship Sorcerer, and debatably Ath's Adepts or the Koriathain. And then when you consider motive behind some of those groups (Ath's Adepts? No motive I can conceive of…), it really narrows the list.
The Paravians really top the list. And I can't imagine them holding anyone against their will, so I do feel that he is willingly set under sleep spells. And there must be a grand and logical reasoning behind this. It will be a fascinating and exciting read when we get to the part where that is all explained!!
In the meantime, on a Wednesday, I feel like I would gladly volunteer to be put under sleep spells until, oh… Friday evening. I'll just explain to my boss on Monday morning that I was enchanted to sleep through the rest of the work week. I mean, what're you gonna do?
originally posted by Michael
Didn't the section mentioning Ciladis vaguely imply that the wards activated with the return of sunlight, maybe Ciladis sealed himself inside, and it would unseal with the return of sunlight, so he could return with the Paravians.
And didn't he make the sunloop to register the return of pure sunlight, so he should be aware of how to create wards which would dissipate at the return of sunlight.
Hi Michael
For speculations about Ciladis, here's the theory I came up with a couple of months back, and Janny's reply. I think it's safe to post it here, because this is a TK thread (spoilers, just in case.)
>> We know that there is a sorcerer bound by sleep spells.
>> We know that Ciladis' colors have changed and that the only other sorcerer to have changed colors is Davien. It's a reasonably safe assumption to make that Ciladis has evolved, but not in the same direction as Davien, given that he's still corporate.
>> We know that Sethvir tried to recall Ciladis using the winds.
>> We know that Sethvir detected Davien's presence in Althain because of the tang of drake magic.
>>
>> So here's the gist of the speculation:
>> Ciladis had changed (before he was sealed away, given that he doesn't appear to be interacting now). By sealing himself away he's denying the call of the drake's charge, which leads me to make the leap that he has achieved what Davien could not do, and actually break the drake binding on himself. (Hence the color change).
>> This would also conveniently explain the need for the sleep spells – there's the possibility that if he broke the binding then he lost the unnatural longevity shared by his colleagues, and would be unable to remain this side of the Wheel for centuries without being tucked away somewhere.
>> More than one spell was needed to seal him away - I'm guessing one for each of the four elements (hence the inability of the wind summons to wake him).
>>
>> Hunter and I had debated whether he might still be bound by the drakes' charge but I would have thought that Davien at least would have been smart enough to try to backtrace the drake magic residue on a sorcerer to determine his location. Either Ciladis broke it, or the Paravians are able to block it, or a living drake has decided to block it for reasons yet unknown.
>>
>> If any of this is anywhere near on track, his return is going to throw a cat among the pigeons!
>>
------------
And Janny's reply:
Hi Andrew - grin.
What in interesting line of thought you two have cooked up…
Why NOT put that up in the chat - it's an interesting take, but…
nope.
(wry grin - just keep repeating Arc IV - that's where this bit of theweave is going to emerge in all its splendor - though no one need not know that since it might get repeated somewhere…)
Ciladis will reveal his own tale, all in due time! As will Davien…there will be more unveiling in Stormed Fortress
---------
And that was that… it seemed like a good idea, but not on track. Does anyone else have any thoughts?
originally posted by Neil
=>
Feel free to delete my opinion here, Trys 
Not sure having the arc4 mention is a good idea? Seems to imply that Ciladis will come back into the action.
My take from this note is that the 7 will be reunited, black rose will prophesy will come to fruition. Arithon is key to restoring balance of some kind (we know this)
Feel free to delete my opinion here, Trys
<=
Super idea Andrew. 
Davien pointed out to Arithon that Cliadis would be willing to speak freely the "force v choice" of preserving the paravians on Athera (for Davien the end is never in doubt).
Maybe Ciladis *chose* to protect - he was "closer" to the paravians(?); he was certainly gentler and Sethvir implies to Davien that Ciladis is somehow less able to withstand any human/paravian calamity (madness…maybe Ciladis is already slighty "unstable"? Could this happen to a F7 member? Traithe is frequency/physically hampered; 3 have had physical body losses, perhaps Ciladas is a "mental" casualty?).
Maybe the binding was no longer the no.1 control on his destiny (but again the other F7 members *would* notice…) to act although I suspect the binding exists still (Davien states that the fellowship have not found the means to break the binding. They have certaininly tried! (I feel from Davien's comments and "silence" so far)
Maybe the other 6 still resent the binding but Ciladis accepted it?
I suspect there are other "dimensions" to the story of which we are still ignorant Of course…
originally posted by Timothy
Another little fact that we learned about Ciladis in Traitor's Knot is from Davien's conversation with Arithon. Or rather, two.
The first was that Ciladis was an incomparable healer. This was also evinced in a previous book (I do not remember which one) when Sethvir mentions how Ciladis hoped to transmute the affects of the Methuri in the Methurien. (Did I get all the terms right? I hope so…)
Another thing that we learned was that Davien said that Ciladis WAS the least shielded of all the Fellowship, which caused birds and other creatures to frolic and gather in his presence. Arithon then noted that Davien spoke in the past tense… yet at the same time still believed Ciladis was still alive. So perhaps when he changed, Ciladis became more shielded?
I need to look at the book again. When I came across those lines in a reread I did a double take, as the past tense must have been significant IF Arithon pointed it out.
I have no theory as to why he would have changed, but I thought I would share my two cents anyways!
originally posted by Hunter
Presumably, although Ciladis was an incomparable healer, Traithe was beyond even his ability to heal?
In one way, it's not surprising at all that Sethvir can't find Ciladis using the earthlink - the earthlink links all items that are/were part of Athera. The great drakes evolved on Athera, Athera is the Paravian's home and all of humanity and their objects are part of Athera and included in the earthlink. There are several rather notable exceptions. Firstly, the Koriani focus stones came from off world and has been mentioned they are therefore outside the purview of Sethvir. Secondly there is the rusting hulk of the Fellowship's original space craft resting at the bottom of Crater Lake. Lastly, and perhaps most obviously, the Fellowship themselves are not native Atherans. They are from other world(s) so would not automatically be part of the earthlink on Athera. Hence it's highly plausible that Sethvir mightn't be able to locate Ciladis using the earthlink. Although one wonders whether the resulting drake binding, redemption and growth of the Fellowship on Athera has imbued sufficient "Atheraness" on them to be included?
What has happened to Ciladis and theories behind also greatly rely on whether one believes Ciladis was put under sleep spells voluntarily or involuntarily and whose sleep spells they are - are they Ciladis'? Paravians? Or perhaps he found a great drake? And is the unicorn standing guard over Ciladis in case Ciladis stirs early, or to stop someone else from stirring Ciladis? Dakar's vision of the Unicorn about to gore Arithon is the obvious candidate presuming Arithon learns how to locate the island where Ciladis resides.
I'm still a little perplexed why no character has bothered to ask Sethvir exactly where Ciladis was or what he was trying to do when he "disappeared" from view? It's probably relevant to a future story line, hence no mention, but seems an obvious question… especially given Arithon spent 15 years criss crossing the seas of Athera trying to find where the Paravians might be - if I was Arithon I probably would have asked where Ciladis was going to look and start there.
Although, given where we've seen live or shades of Paravians - Eastwall Ath's hostel for Elaira, Kewar for Arithon and via Jieret's calling in Daon Ramon - Arithon might have been far better advised to head to his local Ath's Adept hostel, enter the sacred grove and make his need known there. I am suspecting that *looking* for the Paravians will forever be pointless - I would think Arithon should be travelling across the veil in search of the Paravians, something he should be able to do now with his magesight back and his initiate mastery courtesy of Davien.
Lysaer has visited several Ath's Adepts hostels and immersed himself in the sacred grove at Shaddorn (to it's detriment), Kevor similarly was redeemed through a hostel and Elaira met her unicorn in the sacred grove. Arithon, mage trained and Masterbard, has yet to visit a hostel of Ath's Adepts and journey into the sacred grove. I am wondering why?
originally posted by Annette
I should think Arithon would not visit one of Ath's hostels because he would not want to endanger the adepts. And he already seems to be pretty well connected, so not in need of inspiration and guidance from the adepts.
If all the Paravians had crossed the veil, they would no longer figure in the strand castings would no longer be part of Athera. They are still on Athera, just shielded. Ciladis is still on Athera, and Sethvir cannot find him either.
Arithon seems to have no trouble finding a Paravian when he desperately needs one. Arithon sought the Paravians to ask for sanctuary and protection from the curse, maybe Arithon was looking for the wrong reasons? Maybe he never needed their protection?
I believe it was the potential for madness, that Ciladis is being protected from. Ciladis as a healer,closest to the Paravians, with the least shielding would have struggled with yet more bloody wars and the prospect of having to destroy humanity under the binding to the dragons. So with his permission, the Paravians have protected him, they would not have done it against his will. We know the Paravians are sheltering Ciladis, the Fellowship does not know. Offering Arithon the same protection would not have solved the problem, the Mistwraith's bane must find the solution if he wants peace. And if Arithon could come out of Kewar sane, despite what Morriel thought, Arithon is not likely to succumb to madness.