originally posted by Sean Monahan

I feel like this terms are used interchangably throughout the series, and I'm slightly confused. Are they in fact referring to the same thing? I've often heard drake used in the context of a lesser dragon. Some quick googling gives me that Drake is the Swedish word for Dragon.

Thanks for any clarification that can be provided.

originally posted by Trys


And there are fire drakes (fire breathing), cold drakes (non-fire breathing) and I've even heard of ice drakes (not sure if they breathe ice or not). I'm sure none of these terms apply to Janny's drakes.


originally posted by StarGazer72

I've also heard "drake" used in reference to only male dragons.

originally posted by KizilKar

It seems Dragons refer to the dreamer dragons, while drakes refer to the creatures that was spawned by the dragon's dreams. these creatures themselves were also dragonish but weaker but more numerous.

originally posted by Neil

I've now seen 2 references to gryphons in the series.

I wonder…does the resident gryphon know the history of such beings in the context of the War of Light and Shadows? :slight_smile:

originally posted by Trys


Not until the author reveals them. :smiley:


originally posted by BILLEEBEE

Questions… Where did the dream dragons come from? Were they there when the paravians came into being? For clarification - had the F7 dealt with this situation before they came Athena?
How did the 4 dragon skulls get brought out of a grim ward without the knowledge of the F7 and by someone without great magic such as one of the F7? mmm… Please help.

originally posted by Neil

Hi Billeebee

The dragons appear to have been residents on Athera but travelled to other planets. The grimward I think contained unfamiliar constellations (or was it of Arithon's birth world? I forget…)

They appear to still be about (there are hints…"Sethvir keeps constant watch…") The paravians were "sent" by Ath to heal the damage the dragons did so presumably the drakes, paravians and drake spawn (and F7…) shared a planet for several thousand years. That the paravians seemed to have condoned the destruction of the drake spawn (perhaps equivalent to their own survival) and the drakes saw fit to dream the F7 "to the rescue" seems to suggest very desperate measures (or was such a dream a "walk in the park" for the average drake?!?).

The baby dragon skulls are indeed a mystery for the moment. How humans got hold of something so "eldritch" is anyone's guess (except Janny's). Presumably they came from unborn drakes on Athera…unless humans had dealings with drakes elsewhere (unlikely I'm guessing…drakes seem capable of putting humans in their place all too easily?) before (no need to have ever been in a grimward…I suspect that the grimwards are beyond anyone except F7 Paravians and Drakes anyway). But how…

Sethvir must have been aware of their existence - another "mislaid" item by the koriani in the uprising (I'm guess Sethvir (and other F7) is up to a bit of "theft" when it suits his purpose, e.g. crown jewel of Rathain recovery in CotM) - but until activated, the skull wards must have been on his to do list but not a high priority. A Centaur noticed the activation and so did the 4 elements…so consequences will likely follow.

That's my 2p anyway…

originally posted by Neil

From FAQ Splinter Worlds:

"Athera is a high resonance planet, has to be, to support Paravian survival, and even, to enable the lives of the dragons who first evolved there."

originally posted by BILLEEBEE

Ok Thanks Neil,
But I'm still a bit confused. I assumed that Grim Ward area where actual places on Athera?? Otherwise how did Sulfin wander into one. Maybe that's how those skulls were recovered?? But I also assume that you would need to be one of great power and strength to escape one???

originally posted by Neil

From the books, the grimward we have seen in FP, was a paravian ward guarding / enclosing the dream of a dead drake.

Asandir has refused in the past to discuss them Dakar.

This dead drake presumably had seen Dasclen Elur or been near it(?). Arithon recognises the sky when inside this grimward ("the stars were never so bright, but…same constellations")

Dakar's recites: "kill no beast, break no branch or leaf from a living tree, set no fire and remove no twig or pebble". (whether this is specifically for inside grimwards or a wise approach on Athera in general is anyone's guess?)

Therefore, I doubt anyone entering into a grimward taking dragon skulls would escape.

Dakar says of the lost guardsman "those men must of interfered with the dream in some way…a thread of continuity".

Yes I agree about needing a certain experise to escape one…

originally posted by Hunter

The other interpretation of Dascen Elur's skies, which Dakar opined, was that Arithon, despite being shutdown, was interacting with the grimward in someway and causing Dascen Elur skies to appear. Rather than the dragon having been to Dascen Elur.

I'm not discounting the possibility of drakes visiting Dascen Elur - although they were gone before humanity arrived, it's not clear (yet) the whys and hows of the creation of the World's End Gates and the finding of the intermediate worlds and destination worlds through the gates. The Fellowship apparently sought low/no resonance planets for those who wanted to practice technology and other practices harmful to high resonance locations like Athera.

Presumably the Fellowship (or the Paravians) knew of such planets…

The Worlds End gates were setup as part of the Compact… I wonder if the Paravians already knew of Mearth prior to that?

For the baby dragon skulls, they came from Raiett… who perished with the necromancers, although the set he had was taken from an abandoned Koriani hospice… what *they* were doing with them is anyone's guess.

Also interesting that the Fellowship decided to rescue the Great Waystone during the uprising, but no the dragon skulls… Dragon skulls seem relatively easy to use… the Waystone considerably more difficult.

originally posted by BILLEEBEE

mm. food for thought, thanks Hunter. If the skulls were found in the presences of the witches could it be possible that the skulls were actually bought from the planet they all fled from??? As for the F7 choice between the waystone or the skulls?? Well Maybe with all the future threads etc that they(F7) cast they thought that it better it be "recovered" and put into play only when Arithon and Elaria have developed their skills and personalities enough to used it to the purpose of fulfilling the destiny of paravian survival?
Qu: What can the dragon skulls actually do? What is the limitations of the magic. I'm quite familiar with the waystone but being from such powerful magical creatures I would assume that the skulls are more powerful than the stone as this is used as an amplifier?

originally posted by BILLEEBEE

Another question?? Do the necromancers use the skulls as they are a powerful magic within themselves and an unpredictable magic at that? Is it that they have not the resources or skills to use weapons such as orbs or waystones?? Sorry with al the questions but I'm trying to make the links and purpose of why and what they (necromancers) are up to??

originally posted by Melanie Trumbull

A January 31, 2007 post on this thread suggests
that dragon grimwards –
places where a dragon was slaughtered, and thus places that are haunted by unquiet dragon spirits –
are the places where dragon egg clutches may be found.

I don't buy this, personally,
and I don't recall that assumption being spelled out in the books either.

originally posted by Annette

You are right Melanie, it is not mentioned in the books, but this was back in 2007.

A dead dragon is not going to lay eggs, if that is even how they form, and a dragon egg dreamed by a dead dragon cannot be removed from the grimward. A live dragon might have hidden the eggs some where, and they were later found. But they would not have hidden them in a grimward.

There was the body of a young dragon seen in a grimward which was of significance, it might come up in the last book in the series. Maybe the one asking all the dragon questions got confused by that, we have never seen any dragon eggs in a grimward.

originally posted by Melanie Trumbull

The person who kept this thread going in 2007,
their posts suggest that two things are confused with each other:
the grimwards, and the spirits that haunt them:
the unhatched eggs, with the little skulls.

Stormed Fortress is pretty explicit about how the skulls from the unhatched eggs found their way into human society by way of the Koriathain enchantresses. Nothing whatever about grimwards. We don't know that it was the Koriathain who located the nest, with the eggs, in the first place; only that somehow what was left from the eggs ended up in Koriathain custody.
True, what both have in common is haunting by unquiet spirits of dragon origin.
But there is nothing to indicate that nests, with eggs, turn up in grimwards;
my own guess is that the nest would be OUTSIDE a grimward. But that's only my guess.

originally posted by Annette

Well the insides of a grimward are dreamed up by the unquiet shade of a dragon, a dead one dreaming up eggs and then being able to stabilize them though their own apparent insanity seems unlikely. Asandir had to stabilize the grimward Arithon was taken through, just for them to be able to survive. An unborn dragon seems likely to be helpless when an adult dragon shade undreams them. What mother would leave an egg in that sort of danger?

Janny might yet get to dragons, since one having some memories of Dascen Elur might indicate all sorts of interesting things, which have to be sorted out.