The Sorcerer’s relationship with Arithon has always been a bit strained. They’re more or less on the same side but their agendas differ in a few critical areas. And the Sorcerers omit things and misdirect pretty much as a matter of course, even amongst themselves. In the first book, Asandir feels incredibly guilty that he leverages Arithon’s untempered compassion against his trauma to force him to agree to accept kingship but he still does it.
Davien is a huge breath of fresh air because while he’s contentious and plays mind games he’s fundamentally honest with Arithon about what he’s doing, why, and what he wants from Arithon specifically.
And, while Arithon continually exceeds everyone’s expectations, I don’t think we see any of the Sorcerers reflect on their own conduct or resolve to treat future partners/cats-paws with any more honesty.
I keep comparing how they treat Arithon to how Ath’s Adepts treated Elaira, and how refreshing their honest support and guidance was.
Given how so much of the current issues the series tackles come from the Sorcerer’s own mistakes, it’s difficult to see a real path to success for them if they just keep up old habits without critically re-evaluating them.
I suppose it depends. Have you read all 11 books yet? I don’t want to spoil.
Everyone in this series does some doubtful things… but nearly all are acting for a cause. The characters have a good reason to do what they are doing from their perspective.
The F7 have a very good reason for doing what they do… they have one main goal…and don’t always have a choice on the how…they guide as they can.
The F7 have been on Athera for 2 ages (the age of Arithon’s sword is mentioned in the first book). The F7 have been around a long time… Mortal humans will not have the same perspective…no way…but there is the law of major balance…perhaps the F7 have learnt to bend the rules when they need to?
I would guess Asandir can foresee a lot of what he will put Arithon through and feels responsible. It is mentioned the ghosts accuse asandir of losing hope and joy; equally he MUST manipulate Arithon at that moment. I would say the F7 are succeeding and are survivors…but not without cost and not without risk. Some of the risks they are forced to take lead to unpleasant choices (and they recognise this). We have only seen them in a space of 500 years… massive to us readers but to the F7 that’s only half of Dakar’s potential apprenticeship!
I’m about halfway through book 11, so there’s time for a turnaround.
But so far the Sorcerers are all wringing their hands because they don’t know what Arithon’s up to.
And firstly, you’d think they of all people could look at his record and chill out about what he’s planning, and second, if he changes his mind there’s not a lot they can actually do about it so you’d think they’d have worried themselves out on that topic over the last 200 years.
I was happy Elaira stood up for him in the swamp, even if she was talking to Dakar and not a full Sorcerer.
Me, too! It seems as if she’s the only one keeping faith.
I’m not going to upset your apple cart, or tweak at your (genuine) frustration, only throw in a factor to chew on, regarding the Sorcerers’ ‘handwringing’.
They are subject to the Law of the Major Balance and they are also bound to honor the terms of the Compact (which was drawn up jointly between them and the Paravian Conclave).
This is the angle of view you can wrestle: IF they ‘knew’ or had an inkling of where things WERE going…what could they actually DO, and TWO: if they pressed the question to the bare bones bottom line - and IF they found the odds did not favor the ethical purpose behind Arithon’s choices: WHAT THEN.
They ARE bound to act…and if they were forced to a conclusion that demanded response…what THEN.
You decide how to parse the outcome, for them.
Right, that’s all pretty clear, I think. They can’t do anything either way because the Black Rose prophecy puts their restoration and that of the Paravians squarely on Arithon, and they can’t make that choice for him.
And if Arithon has cracked and is aiming to break the Compact then they just lose. They kill or disbar Arithon, the prophecy fails now or later but eventually they have to extirpate humanity and forfeit the salvation the Paravians granted them.
In the meantime they still have to perform their function under the Compact, but there’s no real choices there, it’s all just marking time until Arithon hits the crux.
The only real choice they have, that I can see, is whether to maintain a positive attitude or not, whether to give Arithon the benefit of the doubt or not, whether to cheer him on or not.
I’m trying not to fall into the trap of protagonist-centered morality here, where what’s good for the MC is therefore Good and what’s bad for them is Bad.
But the Sorcerer’s attitude here is actually one of the most terrifying parts of the story to me because it almost feels like they should lose, thematically, because that’s what tends to happen in this story when you don’t act from your truest virtues. So every time the Sorcerers act out of fear it sends up a massive doom flag to me. So I am frustrated with them, yes, but I also can’t see how a happy ending’s going to happen unless they stop subconsciously sabotaging themselves.
Nicholas, do you feel the same way with the last book read?
I had similar frustrations at times early on with Dakar and Assandir but I think in part it’s laid down to show even magical awareness can to some degree be swayed by human emotion.
Lysaer was charismatic and statesman-like, he was easy to side with. He wielded light and followed justice, what’s not to like?
Arithon was closed off, obstinate, sarcastic and barbed when he was cornered. Wielding shadows which are the stuff of nightmares and with gifts that he did his best to hide.
Not really surprising that Dakar who did everything to avoid his talents relying on only his mostly not sober judgement would go for the easy option. It’s what most people do.
I’m still not entirely sure how I feel about it.
It does kind of feel to me like the Sorcerers collectively were saved mostly despite themselves, although Ciladis was awesome, and so I guess you could say that part of the Sorcerer’s issue was that without all seven of them their decision-making was affected, because Ciladis and Davien weren’t around to offer their own perspectives to balance things out. I’ve read the short stories since then as well, and Davien has a bunch of other stuff going on that he’s only free to reveal extremely late in the book.
That leads into my difficulties reconciling everything because there’s a ton of political posturing; Arithon is doing stuff deliberately to give misleading impressions, the Sorcerers appear to be reacting to that misleading impression but actually they know what he’s doing and are playing along etc etc.
So there are lots of double-bluffs and keeping track of what everyone knows, when, and how that alters their perspective on things is tricky.
Because there are decisions that don’t feel right to me, but you could, possibly, explain it with the “I-knew-that-you-knew” dance.
If I’ve understood correctly, Arithon figures out/chooses a Priority 1 and engineers his formal separation from any other concern to work on that, and the Sorcerers understand what he’s doing but play their role in the narrative that’s necessary to keep everything legit under the Compact.
So Arithon looks angry and defiant, with some genuine ill-temper mixed in, and the Sorcerers look disappointed and unsure of his character, but how much of it is surface performance and how much of it is genuine is hard to say.
A lot of the conflict felt dredged up from the first few books, the sort of thing I’d thought everyone would have grown past. The idea that much of it wasn’t genuine makes more sense, but the miscommunication-based drama that accompanied it also isn’t my favourite thing in a story.
As you’re saying it I can think of some of the conversations in the last book you are probably referring to. I think you’re right it’s misdirect so that they don’t have to do the ‘right’ thing and stop him too quickly. It’s that tricky balance between free will, plausible deniability about the problems with humanity whilst trying to keep an eye on the ball and make sure he’s really going where you think. I suspect the ones who are seers or connected to the land and not drunk know what he’s up to (like sethvir and Assandir ) and maybe the others less so. Making the arguments between the discorporates about his nature more genuine?