Davien -- PG spoilers, enter at your own risk...

originally posted by skeoke

WHAT IS Davien UP TO!?!

:hair pulling, teeth gnashing, floor pacing:

Athera is in a handbasket ready for its trip, and Davien is gadding about taking enchantresses for airborn tours.

The Warden at Althain is setting a last will and testament into crystal, and Davien is nose-leading a nearly broken man into Peril.

Isn't there a grimward he could be mending? Depending on his actual discorporate status.

Isn't there a lane he could be re-tuning?

Isn't there a khadrim he could be re-caging?

A starward he could be minding? What chance would a horde of freewraiths have against his convoluted thinking?

With all the trials that the F4 are trying to contain, Davien only has time for Jieret, Elaira and Arithon.

After 500 years strict isolationism and silence, he now blasts back into affairs, but only the affairs of those three.

Did he maintain that silence just so that the F4 would not rely on him in the current crisis, so that he would be free to intervene with the above mentioned individuals?

What threat did he foresee? What message did not get through? Why don't the F6 know what he meant to do? Or, why did they not agree with him? What future threat to Athera will be worse than this one? And does Athera's very existance ride on Elaira "the One's" shoulders? Why should a unicorn bless her, and skewer Arithon?

Stay tuned in February for the latest in this continuing tale …

Patience is SO hard!

What the devil is Davien up to? What does he know?

originally posted by Trys

I suspect that Davien's interest in the three mentioned above gives clues as to why he fomented the rebellion in the first place… what those clues are exactly and what they mean is quite unclear to me.


originally posted by Auna

I'm soooo looking forward to listening in on the conversations between Davien and Arithon. I keep obsessing about what they might entail.

My guess is he doesn't want to go where he's not wanted. He also wanted to just sit and wait to see whether he gets proven right, and 500 years isn't very long when you have lived for thousands of years.

originally posted by Neil


Yes, I wondered about Davien's seemingly lack of action when Athera seems to be falling apart in all directions (Luhaine believes the F7 are under-ressourced, Sethvir is prepared to destroy his entire "being" to take the grimwards out of harm's way…etc. etc.)

However one of your statements answers most of your questions :slight_smile:

"With all the trials that the F4 are trying to contain, Davien only has time for Jieret, Elaira and Arithon. "

Davien's free will is respected but he is "bound" to ensuring the survival paravians too. The key (or one of them; not sure if Moriel's attacks were foreseen?) to Athera's survival according to strands cast in COTM is ARITHON.

1) (Not sure) but didn't Davien "aid" Jieret to ask for help slowing Lysaer down => buying Arithon time.

2) Davien WAS at hand to "guide" Elaira and upset Selidie's plans.

3) Arithon was also available to aid Kharadmon.

4) Davien WAS at hand to aid Arithon, with the "changed water" to get as far as Kewer.

So his goals (and the F7 goals) are met with just a few "minor additional interventions". Pretty effective no? Of course I could be mistaken…but then so could Davien :slight_smile:

originally posted by R’is’n

Does Davien consider himself free? The Kewar tunnel is about facing demons, knowing the self, and finding or receiving absolution.

Has he achieved that for himself? He feels there is no need to pay any price?

He seems to be evidence of a new possible path to freedom - he found a way to become corporate seemingly at will… could he have done that if still part of the 'active' F7?

can't wait… :smiley:

originally posted by Auna

Aths adepts can also become solid at will. I figure he's just learned what they already know.

I see him as someone who is good at bending rules but still staying within them - barely.

originally posted by Blue

More than likely, since Davien has been established as someone who dislikes boundaries or perceived boundaries, has decided to be true to the "spirit" of the law [or laws] rather than to the "letter" of the law [or laws].

So for whatever reason he provoked the uprising and broke the monarchies, shattering the stability of human governance, he did in order to serve the SPIRIT of the Law of the Major Balance, and to fulfill his duties as a protector of the Paravians/Land. There are several hints in his conversation with Arithon that there is some threat the rest of the F7 did not or could not perceive, and he acted to prevent it. Had he been true to the LETTER of the Law of the Major Balance, the threat may have put the Paravians/Land in either dire jeopardy, or wiped out both altogether.

To use a [weak?] parallel, the story of Robin Hood, who stole from the rich to give to the poor. What Robin did was technically "wrong," he would steal [letter of the law]. However, in giving to the poor, he was serving a higher order of "right" or compassion, and giving the money to the poor [spirit of the law, his religious code, or whatever you want to call it].

originally posted by Auna

Good summary Blue, I feel that same way.

originally posted by skeoke

In the past (Talith's redemption at Ostermere), Fellowship wards have not been 100% proof against the Curse, per Sethvir.

On the steps to Kewar, the Curse is thoroughly engaged, then abruptly cut off as Arithon enters into the maze. Lysaer feels it suddenly cut off, also.

It had been indicated that only Paravian wards could shield from the Curse, hence the flight to Ithamon.

Also, the staircase leading to Kewar seems to be less Fellowship working and more 'wild'.

Why/how is Davien so different from the other Sorcerers? Why do his works seem more Paravian (for lack of a better reference) and less Fellowship?

originally posted by Trys


What 'works' by the other Fellowship are you using to compare with Davien's?

My take on the F7 is that they are all different from each other.


originally posted by skeoke

Trys ~

Other people have described Fellowship workings as distinct from Koriathain workings, Adept workings, spellbinder workings, etc.

I realize that all of the F7 are distinct from each other, but their workings are recognizable as F7 workings.

Davien's (esp the stairway to Kewar) seem other or more or something.

Maybe it's just 'cause I know so little of Davien.


Can anyone tell me which came first…
- the stairway on Rockfell
- the fountain in Mearth
- Kewar tunnel


originally posted by Trys


I guess was I was prompting for is that we haven't seen any works on the scale of the three you mentioned that were created by any of the other Sorcerers… (Ciladis's Sunloop for example) and I don't think we've seen Paravian works that are not on the scale so I think it's pretty hard to compare the two. :smiley:


originally posted by skeoke

All right. I'll concede. But, that's what makes it frustrating.

It's the wildness of the stair to Kewar that's tagged my interest, btw.

And if the stairway on Rockfell is just there to aid climbers, I'll be astounded.

originally posted by Trys


No argument regarding the stair. It's likely the first test before the actual maze.


originally posted by R’is’n

ahh… lots of food for thought. Love it…

Since no one jumped in, I can tell you the chronological order requested for Davien's creations WAS correct as listed.

Left out: the entry to Earle.

As to Paravian artistry, there are a few rather monumental examples right in clear sight in the books…dig them up. By Fellowship admission, they could not be replicated.

Fellowship workings you Have seen, that were not Davien's: first and foremst: the Worldsend Gates – and there are more…in plain view, except for the possibility that undue attention paid to Davien by most readers has perhaps, at the moment, "eclipsed" them…


originally posted by Neil


Just been rereading arond (again…)

At the end of PG Davien is talking about "The Seven" and "they" (not we?)…it's a little odd but maybe he is making a point to Arithon that they are "THE SEVEN" and not to tempt disaster too much without thinking about it…500 years ain't a long time for them.

Fortunately Arithon now has additional "ability" but also additional vision to help and support any choices. Can he foresee consequence beyond his lifetime I wonder?

Luhaine has twice now expressed doubt about trouble Arithon can cause (either paired with Elaira ("worrying") or Davien ("more trouble than the free wraiths?!?"))

I still get the feeling that Arithon is going to avoid killing so no more direct battles with Lysaer (althought the clans are likely going to sufffer) but accepting kingship would put Arithon
in a path of working with the F6's proposed system.

Where is he likely to disagree with them? What are they worried about?

Paravian works:

All the older fortresses, Towers at Ithamon, all of the paraphernalia (statues, relics, etc.) in Althain (with it's curiously exotic wards), 2 Giant brother centaur statues in COTM, the standing stones, Arithon's sword, Arithon's lyranthe.

originally posted by Neil

Standing stones were put up by Centaurs it seems :slight_smile:

More Davien comments:

Davien very sneakily says something to the clan like "Maybe you should do…" and then follows up with "…or not"…thus *not* giving advice but making it very clear his opinion :wink: (Just like Asandir and Dakar near the grimward in FP)

It seems Davien believes that Arithon can challenge the F7's will simply because he is so gifted and the F7 are "shackled". Also the F7 wouldn't dream of intervening on his actions gifted as he (although they don't intervene with humans without permission anyway? LOMB) is but that Arithon *must* walk a fine line to avoid breaking the compact also.

So Arithon is in a very good position to fate forge :slight_smile: Just needs to choose carefully to not have the F7 forced to knock him and his race off the map :slight_smile:

Davien freely admits that he is not Arithon's enemy. The clans conclude hat he is not Arithon's friend either.

Daven boasts(?) that he could have killed Arithon the moment he walked through the West Gate. But Davien has never murdered (Clan PG). Would he have contrived another way? The F6 couldn't have foreseen it? Curious…maybe he is exaggerating to convnce the clan that they can trust him?

Davien says the F6 would say that Arithon has a responsity due to Rathain. Davien does not seem to push the point though so I guess that he would have Arithon not accept kingship.

Arithon came back to Paravia in response to the Koriani plot (Fionn, etc.). Arithon is currently trying to stay alive, aid the Fellowship as requested, minimise Lysaer's influence and heal the clan/town relations…if he fails to help Shand/Melhalla as I fear he will, would he head off looking for Paravians again? Are there still clan ships searching the oceans? Could he go through the North or East Gate to avoid Lysaer?

Arithon's decision not to kill: From FP, the death sentence appears to exist in Havish. Would it therefore exist in Rathain?

originally posted by Marcel

I think Davien is the Rave of ? (The masterwizard)
(I wait since 2003 or 2004 of the new book (Germany))

originally posted by Sleo

Oh my! Such interesting conversations you all are having! I'm on my second read thru and am in Peril's Gate right after Arithon saves the world from the lane surge with his Masterbard's gift. I can't believe there haven't been any posts since 2006! But I guess that was due to the gap in getting these fantastic books published :frowning_face: