Davien and grimwards..

originally posted by Hunter

From all we've learnt (so far) about Davien, it appears Davien still has the best interests of Athera and Paravian preservation as his priority.

So, with Morriel deranging the world's magnetic flux and the carnage this is wreaking through Sethvir as he tries to stabilize the grimwards, given Davien can see into grimwards (he knew when Asandir was returning) I'm really wondering whether there is something about those grimwards that Davien knows that Sethvir/Asandir do not.

I have a half formed thought about whether Davien views them as anywhere near as unstable as Sethvir and Asandir do? If he thought a freed drake haunt would destroy the world, I think Davien would have bestirred himself before now to lend assistance?

As Davien's involvement has increased through Alliance of Light, one can only hope he has more book time in SF!

originally posted by Neil

My feeling is that Davien can see that the F6 *do* still have the resource to deal with such issues albeit a little risky.

Davien is back, for sure. What he is up to is anyone's guess…the compact he has to support but the kingdoms less so…

originally posted by R’is’n

Hunter: those grimwards are curious - they are capable of immense destruction, but also they are the reason the Paravians came into being on Athera. Makes for a nice paradox.

Without the grimwards, would the Paravians have existed, or continue to exist?

originally posted by Wendy Collett

I don't think it was the grimwards themselves that the Paravians came to heal, the dragons must still have been alive at the time of Paravians coming to heal the land of the damage the dragons caused, because this is why the F7 were drawn to Athera by the dragons - to protect the Paravians.

Good question in the last week or so - if there are only 18 known grimwards, were there only 18 dragons, ever? Can't be, so where are the rest?

We know they had young (as per the dragon skull ward brought from Hanshire) - which by the way, seems does NOT need a grimward where plain (lead, was it? Just like kryptonite? but perhaps warded by Koriani since they 'lost' it in the uprising) metal contains a baby dragon.

The Koriani had such a relationship with the Hanshire town council as they surely knew where that dragon skull ward was… otherwise Hanshire didn't use it for 500 years? Yeah, right. So why didn't Moriel get it back, huh?

Anyway, getting back to the topic here, if there were 18 grimwards on the planet, but some are on Kathtairr as I can't find them all on the map (think this was also mention in FP), and the Paravians 'never went to Kathtairr' in all the years to heal the dragon damage there (think this was mentioned in FP also when Arithon gives up searching the continent), who or WHAT set up the grimwards on Kathtairr?

Does this imply that dragons had their own way of seeing off their dead 'safely'?

That there was no way they could manage the last 18 of them? Not all of them were last to fall surely, as Eckracken seemed to be an early casualty.

The Paravians created the grimwards to contain the haunted dreaming of dead dragons.

So Roisin, I think the Paravians would have existed, but without Grimwards, the world (including Paravians) may not continue to exist.

originally posted by Wendy Collett

Continuing on…

quote /The Paravians created the grimwards to contain the haunted dreaming of dead dragons.

We have spirit Paravians, spirit F7 members, spirits of humans (ghosts), mistwraiths.

No spirit dragons?
No ability of dragons to appear after death and interact with the future in a reasonable manner a la the Paravians from Daon Ramons Barren at Jeiret's death?


And while on a topic related to both dragons AND Davien, I read a particular paragraph in PG last night - in the 'Invalid' chapter where Ath's adept tells Kevor how he can heal himself. In paraphrasing, it describes a conflict within clouds the will and may prevent the 'right to wholeness'.

Consider this as spirit - if you have a conflict within, you can't 'cross over' back to a body state to regenerate your body, even temporarily like Davien apparently can. Admittedly probably only an F7 spirit etc may be able to do so… but…

If Davien managed over the course of 500 years solitude to resolve the conflict in his spirit over the uprising which was the cause of his discorporation, then maybe this is the key.

Traith can't remember the original battle with the mistwraith at South Gate, and isn't whole, probably is in some conflict and doubt on what happened, so can't repair his own spirit/body.

I haven't figured out Khardamon or Luhaine yet.

So therefore, what about dragons? IF there are spirits of dragons, and trapped in grimwards, could they not be healed also?

Just a few thoughts for today… :smiley:

originally posted by Trys


If Davien managed over the course of 500 years solitude to resolve the conflict in his spirit over the uprising which was the cause of his discorporation, then maybe this is the key.

I seem to remember a reference to Davien disliking the discorporate state and since he created things with his hands… but that is interpretation on my part.


Traith can't remember the original battle with the mistwraith at South Gate, and isn't whole, probably is in some conflict and doubt on what happened, so can't repair his own spirit/body.

If memory serves, part of Traith's essence is trapped with Desh-thiere in Rockfell Pit. Traith's healing and the resolution of the Mistwraith are tied together I would think.


originally posted by Neil

Arithon asked about Davien's discorporate status and Davien said that he disliked the state and "who can put limits on determined creativity?" (end of PG)

Would Davien have had to ask permission of Athera to lend him matter wherever he needs it? Or does he transfer / come back to the same "atoms"? Or is he simply part of the land anyway? Maybe the physical boundaries don't really need to be that finely drawn?

originally posted by skeoke


And how 'on earth' did Davien transfer a corporate Arithon from the tunnels of Kewar to a corporate presense on his ship at sea through the eagle???

As much puzzling as Davien's corporate/discorporate status invites, this bit blows them all to pieces (in my tiny mind, anyway.)

originally posted by Timothy

I would guess that the fellowship are all capable of transfering objects over short distances. I know that at least Sethvir was able to prepare the energies that transferred Asandir and Arithon from a balcony in Etarra into the armory in COTW. For longer distances, they would traditionally need a significant amount of energy, which they would get from the lane flux. As for how Davien did it… that I have no idea. I think the key has something to do with that rock chamber that has no entry with a fountain. I'm betting there's something about the chamber that we do not know yet.

originally posted by skeoke

Forgot about the other transfers. Thanks.

"ready … reach" or something like that.

And of course Kevor also transferred.

When Davien took Elaira for a 'flight', did her physical self remain in Ath's grove? I keep wanting to compare Elaira's flight and Arithon's. I would also very much like to see Arithon tumbling out of the sky onto the deck of the ship. It's a great stunt set up.

originally posted by R’is’n

In my last post, I said that the Paravians came to heal the grimwards. I was wrong.

***Ships of Merrior Spoiler***
As I was wandering through the pages of Ships of Merrior (SoM) I came across a section that described in more detail, the Drakes, seardluin, and related aberrations, how the Paravians came about, and the F7 selected as guardians.

Paravians emerged as the Creator's response to the mistake made by the drakes, that created Seardluin, Khadrim, and other drakespawn.

Paravians warred against the drakespawn but nearly perished doing so.

The Drakes then roped the F7 into ensuring Paravian survival. Together with the Paravians, they almost totally rid Paravia of the drakespawn problem. (But then humans arrived…)

That passage of SoM also says that the Drakes didn't do anything evil, they just made a HUGE mistake, arrogantly playing around with destructive forces and not being careful.

In fact, they were aghast at what they had caused.

So… I'm back to trying to figure out the demm'd grimwards. :smiley:

originally posted by Hunter

Skeoke… there was a great description of lane transfer by Asandir when he tried to transfer into Jaelot to rescue Fionn Areth… whether Fionn Areth actually requested rescue so that Asandir had to honour LotMB is probably another issue… and would Asandir have plucked Arithon and Elaira @ the same time?.. hmm…

Anyways… Asandir and the Fellowship use the Paravian focus circles to upstep their vibrations into pure energy… Arithon did something similar by accessing the Sanpashir focus circle using music…

Aths' Adepts do projection, but presumably from their sacred groves at the Hostels so they effectively use the latent power of prime vibration to source their power for this…

Davien has his sealed chamber in Kewar, would that not be his "sacred grove" as his source of power to walk the paths beyond/through the veil?

Roisin - we know Ecracken died following a drake fight… but the hows and whys of the deaths of the other drakes is rather a mystery. Paravians are semi-mortal, presumably the drakes were immortal? Big presumption since we've not yet met a drake…

Paravians created the grimwards… given the wild magic inherent in them, it gives an indication of the power of Paravian wards that it can contain the drake power… but it does raise the question of whether the drake dreams grew in power over time so the Paravians had time to subdue the drake dreams before they got too strong… otherwise the first dead drake would have meant Athera being sucked out of existence unless a live drake was able to re-knit the fabric of the world…

originally posted by R’is’n

Hunter - thanks for that further clarification.

Seems like the drakes dreams would gobble up Athera for a source of power because of a (very complex) looping 'bug' in the magical 'programming'… which is what the wild magic in the grimwards seems to be.

There must be someway to undo that bug. Enter Arithon…? hmmm…

originally posted by R’is’n

Or… enter Kevor? (The 'saviour'…)

originally posted by Technetus

Hunter: I forget exactly where it is in TK (perhaps Davien's visit to Althain?) but it's implied that he's using drake magic.

(Later, when Kharadmon disrupts Arithon and Elaira, he definitely uses drake magic. Years back – somewhere between GC and PG – I asked Janny for a "hierarchy" of magic types on Athera, but now I can't find her reply… :frowning_face: )

originally posted by skeoke

Hunter -

Thanks. Lane transfers I get (well, not completely.) There was a different sort of transfer during the aborted coronation in CotM. I'll have to go back and re-read. And Kevor's transfer certainly wasn't as simple as a lane transfer. I don't think the Khadrim was polite enough to torch him in the middle of a forgotten focus circle at sunrise/sunset/noon/midnight.

Okay. Lots of reasons for re-reading. Good. I was looking for a reason to go back.

originally posted by Marcel

I think Davien is the Rave (was it a Rave) from the one Wizzard (Was is Asandir?) !

originally posted by Jason Bryant

Normally lurk anymore, but hey-

Regarding the Grimwards-

I always thought they were the haunts of drakes who refused to give up "true dreaming", and to some extent, since they don't seem to fully exist in time, retain that power. Or maybe of drakes who refuse to admit they died? Either way, the other drakes chose not to take that path.

Plus, several times it's implied there may still be some great drakes still alive.