Conjectures with spoilers

originally posted by Trys

The following posts were moved from the General Discussion topic.

originally posted by Matthew


My earlier theory about the Black Rose being a person seems to have gathered some impetus based on the information in the new book :smiley:

originally posted by Sarah Jump

*GASP* ooooooohhhhhhh, I just had one of those "ah ha" "lightbulb" moments. new possibilites to ponder. hmmmmm right now though the place and time are off. She is in Sanpashir and the Black rose is supposed to be in Doan Ramon, also it's supposed to "take root when Arithon embraces kingship."

of course prophecy is always tricksey and Our Lady Ms. Wurts is one of the tricksiest.

originally posted by Laneth Sffarlenn

Perhaps the "takes root" part of it refers to her settling into his role and responsibility - recognising Arithon's sacrifice and humility and embracing her heir-dom.

originally posted by Matthew


I imagine if he finds out he has a daughter he was unaware of he'd grab kingship to spare her the difficulties of ruling and give her the free life he didnt have… maybe she will be the next masterbard?

(Message edited by admin on December 09, 2007)

originally posted by Matthew


From what i understand the child we see having the birthcord cut isnt Arithon's daughter. Arithon's daughter is under protection at the Althain Tower which is alot closer to Daon Ramon Barrens then Sanpashir.

My guess is that it will be the Koriani who will let slip about Arithon having a daughter in an attempt to drive a wedge between him and the fellowship as a last ditch resort.

originally posted by Meredith Lee Gray


Matthew, you bring up a good point. The Koriathain, in their meddling may know that Arithon has a daughter before he does.

I'm not sure if they know now. They know that the snare laid within Elaira has gone awry and that that tactic is not going to work. But I don't recall if they knew that Glendien had actually conceived.

If they don't know, I doubt their spying noses can poke in Althain Tower. It will be interesting to see if they can cotton on to the situation, and if so, how will Selidie torment Arithon with this knowledge. And how will the F7 torment Selidie to keep her scheming mouth shut? And which of the F7 will win the race to get there first?


originally posted by Matthew


Morriel knows Glendien is pregnant 'the babe whose future i engineered to aquire will be carried instead by an ignorant, free-wilds clanswoman' and later she says 'as i live and breathe, mark my warning! After Arithon's daughter is born, the Seven had best watch her back night and day, and defend her with unbroken vigilance'

originally posted by Meredith Lee Gray


OK, thanks. I couldn't remember if she said anything to specifically indicate she knew, and I never got around to checking.

So. Will she leap to use this information to entangle Arithon? Will she bide her time like the spider and wait… Hm…

originally posted by George


the only thing that the F7 can't defend Arithon's daughter from is her own free will. I wonder if Morriel/Selidie will contrive a scenario where Arithon's daughter voluntarily binds herself to the Koriathain under debt…

On the other hand, it is more than 99% certain that with her lineage and inbred abilities, she will be raised and taught the ways of initiate awareness. Which means, that like her father, she will have the means to combat the Koriani.

Remember than Enithen Tuer left the Koriathain and the Koriani did not/could not touch her…surely they would have wiped her out earlier if they had the ability?!?

Moreover, the Waystone is completely hobbled. I wonder how long it is going to take them to excise the iyat and re-configure the waystone. It has now gone from being a pure amethyst to having a strand of citrine in it. I wonder if that will affect the way the Waystone works or if the waystone is somehow less than perfect/pure in its ability to amplify the Order's abilities…

just my 2c!

originally posted by Laneth Sffarlenn

The Eldest of the Biedar made that her terms with Sethvir, that she would receive the training that her ancester was supposed to receive, (which we read in the short story).

Sorry, I'm vague cos I'm at work and don't have the books at hand.
Someone here will be able to clarify for me.

When the Eldest made her intervention and bargain with Sethvir, her demand in exchange for the F7's protection of the child would be that she is apprenticed to Sethvir, like the young girl in the short story released earlier in the year.

originally posted by Cheryl J. Mishler

Enithen Tuer left the Koriathain, I believe that was with the help of the Beidar. Does it not also stand to reason that Elaira could escape her Koriani vows the same way, by asking the Beidar for help? Or is that pointless, I can't remember which book it was, CoTM, or SoM, when Elaira was getting her crystal realigned for longevity. The F7 stepped in and assisted her transition. If my memory serves correctly, didn't the Fellowship sever Elaira's ties with the Koriani? That her vows were pretty much just just empty words that no longer bound her?

originally posted by Lyssabits

They only replaced the longevity bindings, the Matriarch would have noticed the other vows being broken. Also she's used Elaira's vow to track Arithon since the longevity bindings were replaced. I forget the details, something in Grand Conspiracy, because he was saying her name while fevered they were using it to scry him out or something. :wink:

originally posted by Hunter

What the Fellowship did with Elaira was replace the forced regeneration normal of Koriani longevity (which comes at a horrid cost to the enchantress if Morriel is anything to go by) with the "natural" or balanced longevity bindings that the Fellowship use. Verrain is six to seven centuries of age with no ill effects. The change was done such that Morriel would never tell the difference - Morriel also may never have cause to review the longevity bindings on Elaira.

In light of what Elaira's crystal did in TK, I am left wondering, given that the crystal is central to the longevity process, exactly how the crystal was involved and what changes and requests the Fellowship may have made of the crystal in order to modify Elaira's longevity bindings. One might surmise that if forced Koriani longevity was still in effect on Elaira, her clearing her crystal would negate that effect (as Caolle rather graphically experienced although Elaira isn't that old). Morriel then might then have gotten a little suspicious should Elaira have continued to not age even though the crystal supposedly enforcing longevity was missing?

originally posted by Some Name


sigh…It almost makes me sick to think of Arithon as having a child with anyone except Elaira! I wonder if they will ever be able to have the relationship they both want