originally posted by Julie
Can't imagine either the F7 or the Beidar would allow that to happen. I hope it is in reference to something totally different. I like when Janny weaves side stories in to the main narrative.
originally posted by Izzy
I think nearly everything (not all) could be found in Asandir's statement:
quote:"I have come in accord, to confirm the reckoning owed by our mutual promise."
to "confirm" the "reckoning" owed by our "mutual" promise. It implies that the Twisted Sisters (I love that term. Kudos to whoever first said it :D) promised something back to the F7, and that Asandir is there for a reckoning, and not necessarily to pay a debt.
Also remember, that the F7 do nearly everything via permission. If the Koriani were to ask for something, it could well be beyond Asandir's power to deliver due to him NOT being given the necessary permissions.
As someone said above (sorry, can't find the name to acknowledge on a quick sweep) wording is critical when it comes to Janny's works
Regards,
CJ
originally posted by Blue
It was either Hunter or Clansman who first used "twisted sisters" to describe the Koriani, if I recall correctly.
For the record, it is a favorite expression of mine to describe that little coffee klatsch.
Another point to consider with all the speculation about missing too much if the narrative jumps ahead several centuries – although this fragment feels very much like a "Chapter One", it could also be an opening scene from a later part of Arc Four (like starting with Grand Conspiracy rather than Fugitive Prince). It could be that we will get to experience the bitter defeat firsthand, but Janny just had a later scene that had to get out on paper!
Hi Kenneth Murphy - warm welcome to the ranks who are visible!
And to everyone - you have no idea how delightfully fun this is, seen from the author's perspective. Keep stabbing away in the dark…!
originally posted by Auna
Oh that was mean Janny 
I'm actually having a blast too. This is a great snippet to postulate theories over.
I too think the wording is very key. Good luck trying to corner the Fellowship. Can't wait to see the end of this exchange.
originally posted by Neil
I reread and (I think) saw this, this evening: "Perfect with youth, though she was in fact aged".
Selidie was not "aged" during the last story arc. I don't think this "aged" is refering to Moriel.
Conclusion: some time has passed since AoL.
originally posted by Julian
Ah, but Neil that sentence also mentions the dark spellcraft with which she is kept alive which i believe is a reference to the possession of Selidie by Moriel. So it could well be talking about Moriel in that sentence.
Mind you, i do think it is an event in the future, as i can think of nothing that would of left the seven indebted to the Koriathain, nor can i see the Koriathain having the seven in debt and not taking advantage of it already. I imagine Moriel would of brought it up when she visited Althain tower to complain about the waystone!.
I do hope Janny doesn't skip too far into the future with this next book, as i've been looking forward to Lysaers struggle with the curse, now that he has realised that he can fight it. Also, it would be a pity for characters such a Sulfin Evend to drop out of the story, but i don't think that would impact too much on the story as a whole.
originally posted by Neil
Julian,
Hmm…fair point. How long does would Koriani look young for?
Several hundred years IIRC as per the koriani in Furgitive prince that Caolle dealt with.
So selidie might still be young or just look it…who knows?!?
Agree about the timing of the koriani debt.
If you were Arithon, would you find a way to tell Lysaer that you, Arithon, had removed the curse? The clans would certainly pass the word to each other.
Maybe the curse has served the purpose of the mistwraith…religious momentum within humanity.
If the curse was aimed purely at nullifying the Arthon + Lysaer threat, and captured Arithon's knowledge surely it would know that shadow and light elemental control could be duplicated on Dasclen Elur again. Although this could be an acceptable short term win.
Killing Arithon seals humanity's fate. On a solely paravian inhabited paravia would the mistwraith be forced to face the might of the dragons? Presumably a dragon could dream the destruction of mistwraiths to save paravians?
You know that Sulfin, at least, has some idea of the real issues and can pass that information on to his successors.
Would he tell the priests? Who would surely have the talent (sooner or later) to perceive? But perhaps they carry on regardless…
I wonder whether Arithon, Luhaine, Davien will pre-emtively strike against Koriani and fail perhaps?!? Hence the debt? They have to run out of patience sooner or later. The Biedar seem to be communicating solely with Sethvir however and their aim to protect Arithon long enough to deal with koriani, necromancy and free wraths on his own?
Has a koriani prime ever met a paravian?
originally posted by Julie
Priests would be the last group Sulfin Evand would confide in at the current time, even though he persuaded Lysaer to recruit talent to the Light. SE has had is own epiphanies partly through the unleashing of his own raw talent and his one on one experience with Lysaer. Lysaer and SE have to figureout how to now dilute the priesthood of talent before it takes on another life of its own.
AS far as successors to SE- the young guards whose names I can't remember(who originally guarded Kevor) seem to be the best choices. THey are loyal and not blinded.
originally posted by Dave Shaw
Hi All
Been following these postings with great interest and thought i might share a couple of thoughts.
"I have come in accord, to confirm the reckoning owed by our mutual promise."
The only thing that comes to mind that they were in accord with and held a mutual promise is Elaira’‘s longevity.
They both agree that Elaira needed the longevity treatment for Arithon, tho for far different reasoning
They both made a promise to Elaira that shell live for the same amount of time as Arithon.
If the prime matriarch finds out about F7 interference with Elaira’'s longevity she may consider there being a debt for such, or may threaten Elaira in someway that holds sway over F7. in either case "I have come in accord, to confirm the reckoning owed by our mutual promise." May make some sense. Then again maybe not.
Well I hope this adds to that entire hair ripping, nail crunching hysterics that has Janny rolling around her study in stitchers HE hee. ‘’
originally posted by Erik-Berndt Scheper
How about Enithen Tuer? She certainly was old enough to fit in the timeframe. Maybe the F7 and the Koriathain made an agreement when the F7 freed her from oath-bound duties to the Korathain.
originally posted by Dan Whitehouse
I'm not sure if this qualifies for SPOILER status (being a little newbie here)… but just in case: SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER!
I think Erik-Berndt's idea is very interesting, I hope that there's a chance for a little Enithen Tuer back story… or possibly that elderly lady in Jaelot from GC(?). I keep wanting to give Elaira a damn good slapping over revoking her oath to the Koriathain. At some point Elaira's crystal and its preferences must force the issue to a head.
As for Sulfin Evend, perversely I don't think he'll be around much longer. It would be too much of a benefit to Lysaer to have someone so level-headed at his side. He's got to go.
In direct reference to the lovely snippet of story with which the lovely Janny has ruined my ability to sleep tonight:
Ancient score - it's been mentioned before, and unless Janny does a massive time jump (which popular opinion thinks is unlikely) it has to refer to something prior to the arrival of Lysaer and Arithon on Athera. By ancient, I'm wondering just how ancient… the arrival of man on Athera? The Koriani weren't invited to debate on the terms of the Compact but I can't imagine them just keeping quiet.
In any event, the manner in which the debt comes to be repaid is interesting… what could possibly cause the Fellowship to be in this position? Is Asandir taking a leaf out of Davien's proverbial and setting up Seldie? There could have been some hints in the above "draft", I thought. Could this then be a blind in order to release Seldie from Morriel's possession? I'm trying to think if the personal nature of an oath of debt could be used somehow in conjunction with the philosophy with which initiate mages see the relationships between themselves and the world.
Oooh, "mutual promise" suggests some back-scratching has occured. I think someone ealier mentioned the Sorcerers asking the Koriani for help with the wraiths… could be. The term "demise" gave me pause, but that was from the witches' perspective and so hopefully they're deluded.
Many thanks to the lovely Janny for allowing us all (and me in particular) to speculate (and ramble). I'm just pleased I live in England and so get to buy the books a little earlier than others… selfish, I know, but I'm an addict.
originally posted by Erik-Berndt Scheper
Well, I certainly don't believe there's going to be a huge time jump. Actually, there's more I found last time I re-read the book (but didn't share here yet).
I wonder if anyone noticed Asandir's phrase "Don't rest on your luck. I'll be there before you." with regard to Selidie, just before parting from Davien.
Also, we are told that Sethvir has done an augury on the whereabouts of the Koriathain. I cannot believe that's a coincidence, but then again, I may be wrong…
originally posted by John Parsons
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
I'm really enjoying the speculation in this thread (Although we're probably so far off course that Janny is choking with laughter!).
Here is another snippet I've just noticed:
quote:Certainly the onlooking regard of the ranked Seniors picked to share his Fellowship's demise seared the atmosphere to contempt.
de’mise
Definition:
1. somebody's death: the death of somebody, especially when it happens slowly and predictably
2. end of something: the end of something that used to exist, especially when it happens slowly and predictably
As has been said, Janny chooses words very carefully, so not defeat or suffering but demise!
Why? How?
John
originally posted by Mark Stephen Kominski
Hmmmm,
A. Return of Paravians (but then Koriani would not be happy)
B. Towns finally went too far, and Fellowship were forced to observe the compact and obliterate humanity (doubt Koriani would be too happy about that, either)
C. Note the phrasing "picked to share"; implies an event that is forthcoming, as they are not already sharing in it. Would further imply that Koriani machinations have brought the Fellowship to an impasse where their demise (most likely as a Fellowship…just don't have enough power to shut the F7 down on their lonesome, these witches) is possible, or
D. The witches made the Dragons a deal they couldn't refuse, and have replaced the F7 as the wardens of the compact (is that Janny's teeth I hear cracking?).
Gonna vote for 'C', although certainly don't have a monopoly on the alternatives…
originally posted by Carole
Hello everyone I'm new here .
I've recently started re-reading these books and then found this discussion.
Towards the of the very first book Traithe finds Elaira to stop her from contacting the Fellowship and during the course of the discussion he says something like a reckoning owed. This is in respect to the fellowship choosing to sacrifice Lysaer when the mystwraith are about to break free, instead of Arithon. Could it be this that is being referred to?
Its probably way off but I thought I'd post anyway
Hi Carole - welcome here!
Guess away…!
originally posted by Carole
Oops just re-read the bit I was referring too and its not quite where I said it was.
It's where Dakar is talking to Kharadmon on their way to imprison the wraiths.
If anyone wants to look it up, in my paperback version its the top of page 664, chapter(or is that subchapter…) called Incarceration.
exact wording is "If so, our Fellowship has a reckoning to answer for."
originally posted by Neil
I took this to mean that Kharadmon is admiting that the F7 made a mistake in casting Lysaer into jeopardy and that the mistake was compounded because of the justice geas.
The reasoning behind the royal geas is yet to come I guess. I assume the geas is needed to maintain integrity through the years whilst on Athera until an alternative solution can be found.