originally posted by Cheryl
I responded to this but it didn't show up here, or else Trys deleted it. I just wanted to say I'm enjoying King of Foxes and was stunned also by what happened to Tal. It totally threw me. I'm still not sure if he gets healed but I'm hoping he does. I'm glad it sounds like he does get healed. That's my only problems with these books is I wish they were longer. They end too soon. I remember seeing 380 pages and thinking I wish they were 500 or so like Janny's lengths on her books. Thanks for that on Robin Hobb Phil. Sounds great and I'm missing Fitz already. lol That sounds disappointing about Jimmy the Hand but maybe I'll still love it. I think Jimmy was best with Arutha when they were younger. I liked how they met and became what they are later on. Isn't that part of fantasy though, magicking things all better and a happy ending after tragedy and trials?
originally posted by Cheryl
Now I see my post up above in another spot. That's strange but I added more comments so it's good to keep them both.
originally posted by Memory
quote:Isn't that part of fantasy though, magicking things all better and a happy ending after tragedy and trials?
I'm not so sure…
I like my fantasy to be pretty realistic in some senses. That's why I like Janny and Robin Hobb - their characters go through very difficult things, and are changed and by no means unscathed. The incredible things that they go through have a deep impact upon their character and the way they live the rest of their lives, and I think that's a realistic portrayal of how real people would react. Life doesn't always end happily.
originally posted by Frank T Davis
Thanks for your thoughts Memory which are right on.I believe they are true for all of the very good Fantasy writers. Those who have become too commercial, i.e. who write strictly for the bucks or so it seems, tend to deviate from this and just drone on and on about senseless details. In his latest, Goodkind achieved your thoughts but I felt he added way too much repeated and unneeded details. It just seemed to be filler, like the publisher said he needed to produce a book of around 550 pages or so and he did. Don't get me too wrong, I'd still buy the book.
Frank
originally posted by Cheryl
But I don't want the hero to die. Heroes do die, but I don't like to read those endings. Just not for me. That would not be something I'd want to read. I know they are emotionally changed by the events, but I like them to still be alive and free. That's mainly what I meant by happy ending. Not fairytale ending, but that they still have their life to live even with the turmoils around them.
originally posted by max
I LOVE it when the hero gets to live after all they go thru and sacrifice. I don't care what the bible says about Jesus going to heaven, after all that poor man did to change the world and bring hope and love, I seriously doubt that Heaven was a good enough reward. [I have never watched 'The Passion of Christ' and I never will] The first fantasy story I read was 'The Last Herald Mage' trilogy and I almost never picked up another one after that. I follow genres for awhile then after several years move on to another. I was seriously depressed when that story ended the way it did, but I was also having a bad time in my own life and I'm serious when I say that book ended the way it did almost did me in. But I got over it and even if 'Wars of Light and Shadow' were to end awful I will still have enjoyed a wonderful trip to another world and met amazing people and have seen wondrous stuff. [you know, behind my own eyelids!!] So now I am grateful I kept reading. thank you forever Janny!!
originally posted by Cheryl
Max I know that is sad with The Last Herald Mage SPOILER:
but their's a surprise visit later on from the hero that made me think he lives in spirit somewhere happy so I was happy about it. I like the way fantasy is like that and heroes can come back in spirit or any other form sometime but sometimes they don't. It made me feel better though about that particular hero that was special to me too.
originally posted by Rurack
For me it really depends on how I feel about the whole series. and the main character. Some series like Tad williams dragonbone chair a very fitting ending. It felt RIGHT for Simon. Just for some reason it felt RIGHT for Frodo to board the ships to the white shores. Just as it felt right that Thomas Covenant died to protect the Land…well until I read ruins that is. Sometime for the character the supreme act of love for the world or even one individual is self sacrifice. I pull another analogy here. Tolkien had Frodo get on that ship for a reason. After everything thta had happened to him how could he go back and just be Frodo Baggins again. If you ever read the apendix's (or however you spell it) the three other hobbits had real boring lives before but after Merry and Pippin grew taller than any known hobbit. The King came to Visit them!!! Frodo was just all used up.
my $.02 anyway
originally posted by Trys
And don't forget, after many children and many terms as Mayor of Hobbiton, Sam also went to the Gray Havens and set sail for Valinor… as the last of the Ringbearers.
originally posted by Cheryl
I got upset at the way Tad Williams down played Simon in the third book. I felt the series was all Simon and didn't like the way the others took over and Simon's part was reduced to something less important or he had less time in the front of it or that was how I felt while reading it. It's been awhile since I read that series though. I'd rather stay focused on the hero, but that's just me. I don't want heroes to die at the end just not my cup of tea. Just too sad for me. Vanyel was hard but I knew he was happy with that decision. I don't think they ever go back to being normal after these life changes and grand adventures. They mature and change with the events that happen to them. Like Arithon and Elaira have.
originally posted by Sandtiger
Trys,
Ah yes, I had forgotten that about Sam.
As for heros and happy endings, what I look for is a hopeful ending. If the main character dies for a reason that leaves the rest of the world better, I can deal with it - I don't *like* that particular ending, but sometimes it's all that works. I will admit though, I don't re-read books where the main character dies.
I like Fantasy for the wonder element - the hopeful element that people can rise about whatever the world throws at them. I am not saying there doesn't have to be ramifications, but I want at least an ending that has more happy threads than upsetting ones.
As for Books and reading material…I picked up Cherryh's DESTROYER yesterday. I am quite excited about it - been waiting a while for that one.
Sandtiger
originally posted by Rurack
has anyone read sara ash's "lord of snow and shadows" I saw it on the book shelf and it sounded intersting any comments?
originally posted by Memory
I've just got it out of the library, although I'm on some other books at the moment. I'll let you know when I've read it I liked her 'The Lost Child', so I think this should be good.
Memory
originally posted by Ellydee
Has anyone here read "Possession" by A.S. Byatt? What I thought was fascinating about this book is that the two poets (both with distinctive voices in the poems and letters that are cited within the work) that the two main characters are researching do not exist. I actually had to look up Randolph Ashe and Charlotte Lamotte on the Internet before I was convinced. It's absolutely extraordinary, how the author not only creates the tale of the researchers, but the entire world surrounding the two fictional poets.
"Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell" by Susanna Clarke does the same thing, citing imaginary essays on the history of English magic, and is really quite fun.
I am the type who is fascinated by the world of footnotes, researching decaying books in libraries, and trying to figure out why a certain poet said this in such-and-such poem, so many may be shaking their heads at my exclamations.
originally posted by Frank T Davis
I really like this part of the JW site as it provides significant info on the Fantasy/and other writings of other authors.
Sandtiger, thanks for the heads up re CJ Cherryh's "Destroyer". She is one of my favorites and I will definitely add Destroyer to my Amazon wish list. I typically let it grow large enough to get free shipping.
Am currently reading book 6 of Jennifer Roberson's Sword series and while reading your most recent note to this thread, it suddenly dawned on me that your handle might have some connection with Sandtiger, the series's hero character. Is there a connection?
Frank
originally posted by Trys
I'm currently reading two books (a rare occurance for me these days). The first is Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson. I'm finding the book to be extremely well written and the story and characterizations to be superbly crafted. More in a minute.
The second book is Julie Czerneda's Survival (Species Imperative 1). I really like this book. From the style of the writing to the handling of the characters and the slow unveiling of information about what is actually going in shown through the "Portent" sections. Wonderful book with some superlative prose. I'm at work but will try to remember to post a particular paragraph that just lit up my mind when I read it.
Now as to why I'm reading two books. I simply can't read the Erickson for an length of time. So far, in spite of being excellent in all other regards, the story has been unremittingly bleak. The characters don't seem to find any moments of joy along their paths, and while this case be life in these kinds of situations (war) I need a break after reading about a chapter. So that's when I picked up Julie's book. A very refreshing change.
I will finish GotM, but if it doesn't 'lighten up' by the end, I doubt that I'll be continuing with the series.
Trys
originally posted by Cheryl
LOL Frank I would say you are right on the money there but I'll let Sandtiger explain it herself lol You were found out Sandtiger. snicker lol I'm in book heaven right now. I got Soul Weaver by Carol Berg last night and by the way to Carol's fans here, don't read the back of the book. She says it gives away too much information and to not read it. It was a lot of hard work to keep me from reading the back of it, let me tell you. LOL I also got Destroyer last night. I'm very excited about this book too Sandtiger and I know, we did have to wait awhile for it this time didn't we? I was disappointed with the length of the book though. Only 342 pages. Usually Bren's books are very thick and I expected over 400 but I'm happy to have the book just expected more than average length to it. Thank goodness we don't have that problem with Janny's books. And does anyone know when Traitor's Knot comes to shelves this month? Is it still due in the US in Feb? I hope so I want the American version even though I have the UK I'll feel better with the US version and the artwork but I don't mind owning both the cover is beautiful for the UK book. PS Trys thanks for that review on Survival I plan to get the paperback as soon as it's out if it isn't already. I do want to read that one. I'm loaded down right now though I'm buried in books lol
originally posted by Frank T Davis
Trys,
Are either of these books Fantasy or are they Science Fiction?
Thanks very much for recommending Jennifer Roberson's Sword series. Hoolies, I'm just about done with book six, but they have been extremely enjoyable reads. It will be truly nice if she comes out with additional books,
Cheryl, "Soul Weaver" is Fantasy? I'm pretty certain that "Destroyer" is Science Fiction.
Frank
originally posted by Sandtiger
Frank,
You caught me. When I first signed onto the internet in 1997, I was reading Sword Dancer. At the time, my parents were leary of the internet and didn't want me putting my real name anywhere…so, I borrowed Sandtiger's. I may be female, but I liked Santiger's character best and it was very distinctive.
Turns out I loved the rest of the books ~ which is good, and I recommend them whenever people ask about about where the Sandtiger comes from.
Trys,
Ah yes, Survival was wonderful. The portents are decidedly creepy though, as I've told her. You should drop her a line - she'd love to hear that you are enjoying it.
Migration - book 2 of the trilogy is coming out in May.
Cheryl,
I'll be getting Soul Weaver just as soon as I am done Destroyer, I am sure it will be excellent too.
Sandtiger
originally posted by Trys
Frank,
Survival is science fiction. Gardens of the Moon is fantasy.
You are welcome regarding Roberson's work. Don't stop with the Sword Dancer books. Her Cheysuli books are very good and so is Golden Key which is co-authored with Kate Elliott and Melanie Rawn (I liked Jennifer's part best).
Cheryl,
You're welcome on the review.
Sandtiger,
I've been thinking I should either drop her a note or pop into her newsgroup and post something.
Yes the portents are on the creepy side, especially consider that she delivers them in one page.
Trys